South African Football Through The Eyes OF Coach Gavin Hunt

Pirates in the in the top eight never get it. They beat us five more at Grand Stadium. Supporters wanted to kill me. I had to go to the police escort in under the kit at the back of the boot of the car. Their game. People say, you know when they when you read things in the newspaper like I sold this one. I don't sell the players, I'm the coach, the club sell the players. They want financial, they see the money. Leave the money in there and. Then they say we'll get on with it. OK, so this is a better coach than this coach?

Yeah, because of his record. The best coaches are the ones who work with nothing and produce something. Yeah, but it's so much easier when you've got the best quality. So you also pick Coriola, put Corioli charge of Stoke City. He's not winning the league. No chance. Did you want to go to leave? Because I know you haven't. Seen. There we go. So, you know, I'll sit, I'll sit in the media and I'll listen to Take a talk. Yeah. And he talks the biggest load of nonsense. Because that's not the truth.

Then, Clay. Just like a bottle of tomato sauce. Hi Coach Gavin, how are you? I'm OK, man. Yeah, Coach, with the limited time that we have, you've recently done thousand games, I think. Yeah. So I think what we want to touch on today, and obviously you've had such a long career, there's no way we can go into detail, would be here the whole day. Yeah, you're here. We'll just touch on a few, you know, a few aspects of your career, a few you know some of the clubs and also just want to discuss some of the current things that are happening in our football.

But if we can just start with with your career, you were a player, you played. Yeah, I played for a Linux 81 to 94.

Yeah, so came to the junior ranks at amateur clubs, amateur clubs, you know, the football, amateur football was very was very good in those times. And that's where a lot of the scouting took place and got scattered from the you know, there used to be a inter schools competition throughout the country. Yes, so and we got to the final of that the Cape Town team team in Cape Town got to the final of that two twice and obviously got scattered from there. And it was signed a Linux at 1718 and I made my debut year and that was it.

And and back then, I mean football was not as I understand it, way before my time, but it was not fully professional at some. Point. Well, we weren't fully professional, sort of. Amalgamation took place in about 78 yes, when all the leagues you know they came together and that 7879 I only came in obviously 81. So I came through the tough times when there's a lot of teething problems well it still is but generally then there was a lot of problems you know and it was really tough but the football then was we obviously we all had to work and then we trained in the evenings.

You know, we got paid for it, which was sort of semi professional. But yeah, the game only sort of went I would think about in the later 90s. When the PFL. It went 989798 way after the Nations Cup. It went sort of full time ish Salaries jumped considerably more money came into the game. So, yeah, so but we were pretty much part timers, all working head jobs, go to work at 7, come home at 5, go to training at six or by 6, you know, and that was, that's how it worked and. In terms in terms of quality, do you think it showed like what was their big difference in the the players that you see now and then bearing in mind that now they fully professional?

Oh yeah, huge difference. People can say what they're like. You know, there's a saying in football, the old you get, the better you think you were. You know, if you ask anyone, you ask your parents. Yeah, they think everything was better. Better than you know, but believing me it was, I think, I think things were. I think the players are a lot more if it would game intelligence, Yes, yes, I think there's a lot more around game intelligence. There were a lot more around the game where today it's broken down into training sessions and this and fitness and diets and you know, yeah, we try to eat quite professionally.

We had a guideline but certainly the training was very running based training, not very ball based training. So those type of things. The things have changed completely and the game has changed. The game has changed. Has it changed for the better? I don't know. Has it changed for I don't know So, but I certainly did feel that we had a bit, we played a lot in the junior football. We played a lot more football. So the game taught us more then certainly what I think it's. I mean, I look at some of these kids now that play under 14, under 15, they're playing 20 games a year.

I mean, are you joking? We used to play 20 games a month, you know, from our school and play for club and you know, so there was a lot more football. I thought the game was a better teacher. And how was it playing? Because I mean, this is the period when your guys achieves pirates that were massive. I mean, they still are. Pirates weren't Pirates were a big club, but they weren't very good in the 80s. I mean, there were a lot of a lot of relegation. Yeah, they won a cup here and there, but in the 80s they were a poor team of the Chiefs era.

They should have got relegated one or two years. Pirates. Chiefs was the team. There was no Sundowns. Remember Lodi United? Yeah, it was Lodi United. Maybe the the grey and black team, Yeah. And they sort of, you know, then they're about until. Well, hope he came in and put all the money in. Well, where he got the money, it's another story. Yeah. So yeah, Chiefs was the biggest team. Pirates obviously had the fall in Swallows is obviously very big in the 80s, you know, Swallows. Swallows and Chiefs were really the the the the sort of two big teams.

Pirates was very big obviously, but certainly they've always had, they had internal problems there and then until they sorted their club out and you know, they were different club after that you. Know and I've heard you say before that playing against someone like teenager was like a nightmare. Exactly. Well, I think for me in in today's football, there's not enough footballers. So what do you what do you mean by that? I said people wear that natural ability in the flare and the guy like teenage, I mean teenage, it was like a left winger come, but he would go get the ball from the goalkeeper and play one twos up the field.

He was just a natural national footballer. Beautiful balance, rhythm, speed, quickness. I mean, if you look at him, you think, oh, there's nothing of him, but he was, he was so balanced and graceful. He sort of, as I always say, if there was snow, you wouldn't make any footprints on the snow because he ran so beautifully on the top of it, the grass and and the balance and everything. And there's a player like that that certainly, you know, could have played at a much better level and what he played at year.

But he was a huge hero. And still, he's a, for me, one of my fan favourites, you know, obviously played against him lots of times, but difficult games, you know. And coach, when you retired, you then went into coaching. Was it something that you, you know, you, you? So, so when I was playing to earn extra money, yeah, we used to coach at schools. Yeah. So that's what I say. What doesn't happen a lot to these, these professional footballers today, they train in the in the daytime, they finish after lunch, whatever.

They should be coaching at schools. So what I did, I went to coach at the schools. So earned extra money. It was good money. It was more money than I was earning in playing, playing. So I I got into that coaching bucket. I was in my early 20s. So I coached at schools and then I got chosen funny at work say I got chosen for the provincial under 16 nest, the coach, the Oscar, can I coach the national, the provincial teams which is western province there down there. So I said sure and then I went luckily enough of the the tournament was we had off period and I went to the tournament and they picked me for the South African under 16 coach.

I was only 20 odd 20. 20 odd. 2324 and we only played one game or whatever. And then the sort of went from there, you know, and the bugs sort of bit. And I and I was coaching all through my playing career, but coaching kids, which is not really my, it is a bit difficult for me. And then obviously when I had a bad injury, I was about 3233, I stepped my Achilles tendon and I was just, and then I was nine months out. We had no medical aid. You're on your own. You had no rehabs like they do today. I mean, the player comes back from Achilles tendon after 7-8 months.

You bet. I was 99, scratches, couldn't walk and and obviously it was affecting my job because we had, you know, tried to look after my job. I couldn't and I was a RIP, a RIP on the road. I was in and out of a car all day. I couldn't walk, I couldn't drive a car properly. So my bosses weren't very happy with me. So I thought and then the guy offered me a job at Vesco to go home, which was my first coaching job. He said what are you doing? I said, well, I can't, I'm not going to play for the next first six months or eight months.

He said why don't you come coach your team? I said OK, I'll do it for a short time. Where was Vasco? They in what league? And they were in the Vela league, OK, Which is the Mosapi league? Yes, yes, Which is the First Division? Yeah. So. And I did that for about 3 months, never got paid. So I stopped there and then I went to Seven Stars and, you know, then I sort of went from there. And that seven star setup? That's where you discovered a young Benny. Yeah, Benny was 17, and the first day I walked in there, I said this boy will play in Europe.

Listen to me, you're joking. And I was proved right. At the end of that season we sold him to IX Amsterdam for $1,000,000. I think it was, I think. It was a lot of money back there. We bought Combies and buses and and I always said today that Club 7 Stars would have been challenging the top clubs in this country. But at all the infrastructure, all the marketing, we had Adidas sponsorship pick and pay. We had a owner that was very forward thinking. Rob Moore, a guy that you know, was a way ahead of his time in South African football.

Yes, yes. And it would have been a huge club today and the seven stars of the seven townships in Cape Town. And we had a good support base. You know, we had a much more black team than a colour team in Cape Town. So it was a different a different concept, a different feel to the thing and and and what he did very cleverly got those old ex Kaiser Chiefs players, Chipper Molotedi, Trevor Minton, Kulu, Henry Conway. Who else said I have the I'm talking now. I took in 90s now I'm going back a few years.

Yeah, so and then we created the support base and and that club would have been huge. I mean, we played Chiefs. I think we had more supporters and chiefs that day, you know. And we lost to Sundowns in the semi final of the Bob save on penalties. That team at Chuku for Tomba, we were a we were a First Division team. We lost on penalties. That was the only game we lost. We went 78 games unbeaten. Yeah. You didn't find find your way to Hellenic. I went back there. So what happened is my brother-in-law at that time, Mark Byrne was running the youth Academy and he was taking the first team, but he wanted to run the youth and and I think me and Rob were come to, we come to an end.

I was there four years. They wanted to go the Dutch route. They found they, they saw their backsides eventually about that, which is good because they find that, you know, that always something foreigners better than local, which they always do. And, and after six months, they fired the foreigner. They bought back a local and the team went back. That was after I left and I went back to Lenny and what happened in seven stores that they wanted me to go full time and I had a very good job And I said, well, I'm and I could train in the mornings like we did and still do my job.

But they said no, no, you've got to be full time. And Lenny said no, no, you can keep your job and we'll pay you double your money. So you had another job outside? Football. I had, football I was an agent. I used to sell. There was a brand called Mitre. Do you ever heard of Mitre? My to the soccer. Ball, soccer ball. I was an agent for them. OK, so Jingles Pereira, You know Jingles Pereira. Yeah, He was an agent in the cutting. I was an agent in Western Cape and down in, in Durban was a Grand Mcdade.

He played for Durban United. We had all these agents around the country. So we sold balls and kit and shin guards and to all the retail stores. It was a, it was a good job, a good business, you know, and they wanted me to give that up. I said, no way, you're joking because I can get fired tomorrow. I'll lose my job. So and then Lenny, obviously I played there 14 years and they said come back. And so it was a a bit of a smooth transition for me. I just went across the next week. Yeah, but at the time Hellenic was like very was a was structured team, wasn't it?

Great structured club. Youth development club. Yeah, the first best youth development club in the country. Nobody. They won that. The the the the the the Celtics Colts league. Remember it was a Celtics culture league in South Africa. They won that league ends down to many times produced so many players to the first team. The club was all about youth development using their own players obviously cut costs and then sell. So you know, owners cut produce, sell, which is pretty much experienced now most of my life.

So you can never be a coach where you you can say, well, I want him, him, him. You're sort of getting him and then building him and then selling him and then you sit with the problems afterwards. So yeah, that's what happened. And we had a very good season or two. And then the third season, I think was about the third season there we hit a bit of a speed wobble. We sold our striker to Denmark. We sold our goalkeeper to Norway, beat Milbarron. We sold Bradley August to Denmark. We sold one or two of our players.

And we just couldn't, you know? Did you coach the Grant Young? I coached. I played with Grant and I obviously coached him. There was quite a few players actually, yeah, yeah. That I played with and coached Michael Allen. He was winger I think. Michael Allen was the center midfield player. Left footed though. No right footed. OK, he worked for kickoff or something. He was a kickoff, though. Yeah, I know my. Allen, you were kickoff and touchline media at those times they started kickoff. So he played for me.

I played with him. Grodd Young I played with and coached. Yeah. Craig Rosley. Craig Rosley I played with and coached. See, there's quite a few, there's a whole lot of list. So it was AI enjoyed my time back there, but I knew it was a a stepping stone for me just to get a bit more experience. What's your story? Not you know, and yeah, then obviously that came to an end very dramatically. And then, you know, it's amazing. I owner of a football club. He's passed away today. He phoned me six months later and said, listen, I made the biggest mistake in my life.

Please come back from That's when I said no, you know, when I was already on my way, you know? But I mean, if you had a Lenny, can you dream while a structured team? You know, I was in Cape Town, I'm from Cape Town, it's my home team, team I played for. The marriage was made in heaven and they just had to be a little bit patient. How do you then find yourself inventor? Well, that's an interesting story. I mean, I've told this 100 times. David Adela was, so David Tadella was, he was in the police force and he was in, he did Kaiser chief security, yeah.

And then he ended up being the PSL security. So when the Lennox used to come up, you know those days you need the security because it was a bit violent in the stadiums. I'll tell you stories in the stadiums, you know. So we had to, and so I knew David and I was out of work and I got a phone call out of the blue two weeks or three. I think it's about 3 weeks to go before the start of the and they just got promoted to the PSL. He said to me listen hey come here, blah blah. So I packed the bag about this big thinking I'm going for the weekend and I ended up being here a year and it was one of the best years of my life.

And and how was the adjustment? Because huge. And I mean, I, I don't mean to say this in a bad way, but obviously you can't compare like a structure like Hellenic with like a black. Athletic, you had a club that was there for 20-30 years, 40 years. You're a good structure, good paying systems, but it wasn't, the pay was very good, but yet you know, you got your money on time. There was training facilities, you know, everything was done properly. Where you go to Black Leopards, it's a new club. Just come in the league, just in the PSL.

There's a lot. David obviously very experienced, knows the league, but in terms of running the club a lot had to be done. So with a little bit of experience I had and David's experience, I think we, we put it on, you know, on a nice path. And then obviously, yeah, I think we had, I mean, we had a fantastic season, you know? And in terms of off the field, I mean, a white boy grew up in Cape Town. Yeah. Being in vendors, them Longo. How is it? Yeah. How was? Well, firstly, I mean, I'd have to tell you it's 40° every day, yeah.

Yeah, I'm from, I'm from up there, so. You know, so Toronto, Toronto, Sebasta, You know Sebasta? Yeah, yeah. At the. Top of the yes, yes. We trained there, you know, that was the biggest problem I had And, and I think that was a big for David living in Johannesburg at the time. I said we need a facility, David to train. You can't. And I think that's the biggest problem in the PSL. And I think the PSL has to have better standards being and, and, and things put on the club conditions that where do you train?

What facilities? I mean, I, I mean, I don't want to mention the club's name, but it's big clubs, people who are well up in the, in the, in the echelons of football. And if you've seen where the team's train, that's a disgrace. That's a disgrace and that and that's been the biggest problem in South Africa. When a club gets sold or franchise gets sold, you're selling a franchise, you're not selling a training facility, office asset. There's no, there's nothing. There's just a bus and players and and a shell.

And I think we're not leaving anything behind. So when we pass on, I think people are passing on through the game, but not leaving anything behind, not building anything. It was like so every day, isn't it? There's no been nothing been built. There's no infrastructure, there's no and people are just looking after today and not worried about tomorrow and we should leave. I always say when we leave football we should leave it in a better place than when we found it and I don't think we're doing that in South Africa.

It's a big, that's a big gripe of mine that PSL clubs, you must see where the players are changing in their course. It's unacceptable for this day and age, it's unacceptable. And I mean, you're close to that like that likes of Coxwell. Rachi Videla, that's, that's a, that's an interesting story. He was a Dynamos, which is the biggest opposition to black leopards. So we had to get him. I think David paid 10,000 rent for him. And I said no, he said no, I'm not paying him. I said, David, we need this guy.

This is a guy that can help us. And you know, he was proved right. He was fantastic for me and we still talk today. He's he works in the correctional services. He's got a job there in that Leo Corp. Yes, yes. Yes, yeah, we still talk today. And you had a great season there. We were sick in it off way. I remember I arrived there three weeks before the season started. We hardly had a we had a a nucleus of players, but we needed so the few players extra and it was a rush job. I didn't know the players, they didn't know me.

I mean it was really, but it was a match made in heaven. We we hit that straight away and and the the attitude of the players, the people are the best thing they invent. And I don't mean I'm not saying this because obviously, but the people are fantastic people. They were supportive to the team. They came in, they came in the stadium, which the full that stadium. Yeah. Yeah, she was. I mean, the game we beat, you know, some of the games beat Chief, say 3. No, what a game. I could never forget it, you know, and we built A-Team there around Bolondo, remember, Siquivili, Siquivili.

We had Coxwell, we had Clamini with Vuji, Karivi, McDonald, Nashidivi, Christian. I had, you know, people. Togozani Manguni at the back. At the back there Romo Suto was my goalkeeper who's. Coaches. He was no coach. Or team Ramazuli, Raymond Cineo. You know, we had really a good teammate. A good team, Yeah, a good teammate. Hardworking, honest, you know. And then swallows, I think a lot of people really, I mean everyone saw what you did at Leopards, but I think swallows was when most people really started to take.

You know as well as you'll get more recognition. Wouldn't you? Because it's a hurting. And David was very upset with me and but I was, you know, what happened was he left it late and we were coming right. We were right at the end of the season last game and he started he must stay. And I'd really, you know, they made contact and said listen. And he said it was a little bit about the money, but also about moving forward as a coach, you know? The next step? I don't know if we could have done that again at Leopards another season if we didn't invest in the team, you know, and investing, meaning, you know, getting one or two.

It was very difficult to get players to come there, you know, play. I don't want to live there, you know, you know, so there were those type of things and I just felt the Swallows was a certainly a bigger football club with a you know, at that stage. I think Leopards could be fantastic football club. You know, if you just, you know, reinvest and and they get in the PS, I think that they get in the PSL again, I think they'll kick off again, you know, because they got support in that, you know, the Swallows.

Yeah, Swallows was as amazing. I never get remember that. It was amazed meal days. So we used to play at FNB Stadium, the charity. Charity Cup, yeah, like a day tournament, so. I leave leopards. Obviously Dave was upset with me. I was. It hurt me to leave because I didn't want to leave. Where do we draw leopards in the first game? Gosh. And then 9:00, When was 9? You could play 911 o'clock 3:00 and it's 90,000 people in the stadium. The hammerus. 3 nil Hammerus. I was swallowed yeah you see you shouldn't have left because this team is rubbish.

I was you know this team. I said look, what should we end up? You know I said in my mind and see where you end up you know and we started the supporters wanted we play and then we drew pirates in the in the top eight never get it. They beat us 5 nil at Grand Stadium supporters wanted to kill me. I had to go to the police escort in under the kit at the back of the boot to the car. I'm like, do I really need this lipids? They love me. There I was, you know, I was could do what I like there. And then we slowly swallowed.

We came 4th that year. I remember that, yeah. Fourth highest position. They finished, you know, for a long time and then obviously we kept in the top four, top five. I was in six years, you know. And and how difficult was it competing with? I mean, you still did not have the resources. So swallows, we were selling club so I used to work with a guy called Leon Prince. I know, Leon Prince. Yeah, Leon Prince, I feel for him. What the club did to him personally, financially killed him. And I don't think he's ever recovered.

You know, his family. I mean, he had threats and, and it just, he got to an age we couldn't, you know, it was just, it was just listen, they never really accepted him. But Sulla's best time was under Leon Prince, results wise. We won the cup, we were in the cup final, we were in the top four, top five. We sold players, kept the club afloat. And then obviously that I left and then they really struggled, you know? It used some mean duty chiefs. Yeah, I didn't. So there again people say, you know, when you read things in the newspaper like I sold this one, I don't sell the players, I'm the coach, the club sell the players where they want financial, they see the money.

And the money and then? They say we'll get on with it. I'm saying, well, you sell my best player I need to replace, you know, But they how? Good was he though menu because he was one of my favorite players. Menu was the biggest underachiever as a footballer. Biggest underachiever. He was lazy, but he had the best football brain of anybody. In terms of football. I had to play we. Understood the game. And, and he was, I mean, it was a funny story because he, he was out of contract walking the street and was really kicked him out.

I, I was driving, I was driving around Range Stadium. This is a true story. And I saw him running around different race course. So what do you I stopped the cars. What are you doing? Because now I'm out of contact. And I said come to training tomorrow, six, three months later without a job, he was in the final team three months. So there was I said to him, listen, you know, you're the glue. Yeah, you can make our team play, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you need to get fit. You know, he always had a weight problem a little bit over heavy.

And I got him playing and and he was fantastic for me and he could play. I told you, listen, you had to go to Chiefs because the money was double bigger club, blah, blah, blah. But I said there, you're not going to be the main guy. Yeah, and he wasn't. With me, you're the main guy when you go there. You had doctors and the shoes and you had a coach that he was never going to get on with. Dmitri Ted. Yeah. I said you're never going to get on with a guy like it, is he? You know? Yeah. He's not like me.

Yeah, totally different. Yeah, me. I'm going to give you the range. He's going to be, you know. So. Yeah. And then he phoned me and then he went to Sundowns and I said you, you you came for money. But it's going to you're going to come to an end, you know what I'm saying? And when you get to super sport, firstly, why leave silos? You had a good thing going there. Well, as well as I, I, well, obviously you leave for you think that the team is better, you've got more opportunity to win coaches and obviously the money's better.

Yeah. So people that don't need their daily coach tell you is you're going to you want to go where you can win. Yeah, so you at a club, you say, well, this, we can't go any further with this team. We're not going to reinvest. The owner's got no money. We need to go to a club where So when a coach, the people say, oh, what a great coach. Yeah, you need good players, don't talk to anybody. We say this is a better coach than this coach because of his record. The best coaches are the ones who work with nothing and produce something.

But it's so much easier when you've got the best quality. So you ask the Pep Coriola put Pep Coriola in charge of Stoke City? He's not winning the league. No chance. What are you joking with me? Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, Yeah. So the point I'm going to say is you, you get approached and you say, listen, this is a situation. I I went to Leon. I said, he said to you, listen for your, for your career. This is what they're offering me. I can't offer you that. I said, this is what they offer me.

Look at the team, look at the club. That's, you know, it's and he and he rightly said, you know, you've done your six years. He said, oh, 6-7 years. And yeah, off I went, you know? And then when you get to super sport, we, I mean, we are very. It was a huge rejection for me to go there for the players. Yeah, we knew they. Didn't accept me there. We're fairly new channel, but we've recently interviewed Gaga. Oh yeah. And he told us a story. He says when you arrived, it just was not working with the player.

No, they were used to, you know, they were used to pizza. And you came in, you were different and initially you clashed with the players. It didn't really work out. You clashed with him, but. Today and today. What is he going to say today about me? Yeah, he's. Got a lot of respect for you. And he says eventually you understood them. They understood and you won the league. So yeah, take us through that first season. So I'll never forget the first day I walked in there. I walked in there without anybody introducing me to the players as well.

No CEO, no chairman, no nothing. So you walk in there, I'm a new coach, you know that type of field and they've had a coach for 6-7 years and that coach has brought most of those players here. So it's always going to be that, you know, so, so I'll never forget the first day they were sitting there. It was it was 8:30. Everybody sit in the chat. I said, well, what are you guys doing here? Let's get on the field. Are we waiting for you to talk to us? So talk to you about what? So they were used to that and then they would go train at 10 or past 10 after that talk for an hour.

In addition to that was the way he did it me, I'll say we'll talk on the field. So you know, so there was a huge change in the training times change the training. It's it's like that with energy. When somebody takes over from me, there's going to be that you know, always be. So you know, people get used to coaches and and the way they do things and people don't like change. People don't like change. So when you sit in a routine, you got to work, you got to get and all of a sudden I'm saying, you know, you come to work at 7.

Now I've been starting up. I used to be working at opposite. Yeah, yeah. Why are we working at seven? Yeah, Yeah. Well, if you work at 7:00, you can finish at three. If you work at 9, you're going to finish at 5. What's do you want to work? What do you want to do? And then, and then they say, oh, the style of the. I love the way the style of the football. I don't, I'm not. I don't know what style. Just play. Make a style. So there was a huge ejection and after five games, I would call the. We were bottom of the league.

Yeah, we were bottom of the league. True story. And I would called in and said that's it's not working. Players don't like your methods. They're not buying into this binding. I said, well, what about the So what is what? What is the problem? Am I fighting with people like like no, no, no, it's just not binding your methods. I said, well, then you should have kept your coach there, you know, do you want to? Know how I operate? You can. Where'd you come last year? 7th, 8th I said you want to come?

I don't want to come. 7th, 8th, I was with the teamers in the top 4. So they said OK, OK, OK. And you know, it was pretty like, oh, but we're just very alarmed. I said, you think I'm not alarmed? The results are not good. I said, but let me do it. I'm going to do what I want to do now. OK, boom. We won the league that same year. Do you think we would win the league? What was it? Were you surprised? I said to the owner, for on day one when I looked at the squad, I said we're going to win the league here, We can win the league here, we should win the league here, he said.

Oh, you're joking. We came seventh last year. We'll see. We'll win the league here. We just need a different approach. I've watched your team, I know the players and and I've got one or two out and one or two in and I've changed a few things here and there. And this has always been just to get clarity on this. Did you, did you want Teko to leave? Because I know you guys went. To Australia. There we go, There we go. So, you know, I'll sit, I'll sit in the media and I'll listen to Take a Talk. Yeah.

And he took the biggest load of nonsense because that's not the truth. Would I want Africa's best player to leave the club or You're joking? Doesn't. That's why I'm then. They go on. We didn't fit in the style of the team. We went to Australia. I got an airplane. I joined right the week, that week we got an airplane. We got to Australia. I don't know. I don't know anybody. I sat there by myself. I've got Thika Medici, right? I can see he's a bit. He's being tapped up by everybody. That's fine. We play a game in Australia, 2, three games.

He wins man in the match. I'm saying she's we're going to build a team around this guy. No problem, no problem. We get back train week or two, a week before the season starts. A week my chairman phones me. Oh, I've had to do this deal. I said what deal? No, no, we've had to sell Thika. What you talking about you I I don't want to take you. I don't want to take it to leave my best player now leave Pirates, one team Pirates to put pressure on us blood. This is the I said, oh, thanks new coach. We got problems.

He left and then the story comes up. I didn't want him, his style of play and then he comes out saying he didn't fit into the methods that's but he let him. That was the fittest he's ever been in his life. At pre season he did set him on his path. There was a fittest that made him work a little bit harder, put a little bit more into him and yes, maybe we clashed on the training ground. I pushed him a little bit and he didn't like it or whatever, but but to say that I didn't want him was the most.

And you win the league three times in a row, which is? Which he did say, by the way, I believe in super sport to win trophies. But in the he never won anything for the last five. He never won anything for the next 10 years. So that was a good state of that. Yeah. Let me take a we talk about it today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't have any bad things. Not personal. The way it came out about I didn't want him was all wrong. That's all wrong and. Then that's the truth. You win the league for three years in a row, which is unbelievable.

Doing badly in the cups. Yeah. So they told me I'm I'm a, I'm a league coach, not a cup coach. I was like, sorry, have you ever heard such nonsense? And then you call some good players. I mean, we can't talk about all of them, but just just just to mention a few Dean Clit, when you look at everything is achieved, I mean, what did you see? Like what was it about them? Why you've achieved so much? Dean Clit is like a bottle of tomato sauce. You know when you go, when you take the mortar sauce and you put on the chips?

Yeah, yeah. And. What are you going to do with the tomato sauce? You've got to hit it behind. Yeah. Then the tomato sauce comes out. Yeah, so he's like a bottle of tomato sauce for me. You've got to hit him and then push him and, and, and, and make him a little bit angry and make him and then you're then the thing comes out. So he was a guy that just needed a push, just needed to be told sometimes the truth. You know, players and and nowadays what I see with a lot of young coaches who come into the game, they lie to the players.

There's a lot of faults acting and hugging. And why do and people think you're going to gain respect from a player? You'll gain respect in the short term, but in the long term, you're not going to gain respect because at the at the end of their careers, they will say, geez, that guy, yeah, we maybe didn't get on the beginning, but that guy is the guy that pushed me to levels that I couldn't get to. Yes, that I should have been at much early in my career. And then you get coaches who hug and kiss players in front of the cameras.

It's all for show. But behind the scenes, they're not being honest and truthful. And if I argue, but I, you know, when I argue, but they argue properly, that's when you and you get that. But when I'm arguing, you like this. And for the guy like Dane, you need to push them. They need to tell them. And today we we're good friends and but we fought and we fought with everybody. But you're pushing people to boundaries that you, you know, they can get to. There's people that you can't push, which you leave.

And I always say is all saying in football, the day I stop talking to you is a day you must get worried. Yeah, yeah. Because the day I stop pushing you, you must get worried because then I say, right, you're at. But the day I keep pushing, keep pushing you, keep pushing you, keep pushing you and keep on your back and you go, geez, this guy, I mean the coach that I had when I was a player today, I can see why, but I not hated him. That's not the word. But I, I couldn't get out of this guy. I but I wanted to show him all the time because he kept pushing me and kept on my back until I said him why he was picking on me.

He said the day I stopped picking on you, they they got a problem. So Dane was one of those type of players and then eventually he started getting 8910 goals a season, 1520 assists, free kicks, corner kicks and his work rate better and and he and look at the career, you know. And the difference between Dane Clayton Massim Hussaini Zongo because Zongo. Much mobility. The best player I've ever seen is one of the best is Zongo. He's unbelievable footballer but he never had what Dane had and you couldn't push Zongo.

The more you pushed him, the more he just so Zongo. I think Zongo search and says to himself did he he'll say did he have a good career? He's he's got, if he's honest, he said no. And out of that group, the Ronmans, Kermit, the Rasmus Zongo, Kamehelo Mukadji, he was the best. He was the best. He was the best. And he should have played like he went to Finoid and they loved him, but he was never going to. He's never going to be a football that was going to be restricted. Not restricted. That's not the word.

But put in a structure and say when he played for us, when he first came in, when Dane was injured once or twice, I mean, we played against Kaiser Chiefs. I mean, Jimmy Dao, Jimmy Dao is still looking for him. He went past him I don't know how many times, you know, and put the ball across it. But then after 5 minutes, he didn't want to stay on the left wing. He wanted to play in the middle. So Zongo, we need to get the ball out there. What are you doing here now? I want to get on the ball. We will get the ball to you, don't you?

So, and then eventually obviously mean, you know, we're going to clash and we say right, we move him on. And, and I feel sorry for Zongo because he's a nice guy. I like Zongo there. You know, if you sit with him longer, you'll laugh. And he's got a great personality. He's a great personality. And but he's certainly somebody that way underachieved, you know, and that's just me. If he says he achieved and you know, that's fine. If he feels he's done enough, well, that's fine. We've also interviewed Bibo last week.

Bibo, there's another one. And he says, because you see in that group that you just mentioned. He was also one of them in that group. Yes, but he was never considered the best. Well, they played him wrong. I thought in the juniors they played him as a #10A10. I put him back in the midfield as a six or a 18, whatever you want to call them, in a double midfield. And his career. We sold Lebo Kokana, right? It was very successful for Paula. It was a fantastic sign from Black Leopards and people forget about how we signed him, what we did with him and look at his career now you know, and and then he moved on for a little bit.

We moved him on for good money to Salt. Then they said to me, what are you going to do? I said, well, I've got this guy, the juniors were playing, I'll go with him because I think he's good enough, but I'm going to move him back and we won the league again with him and Bieber was fantastic. Go to shut to Pirates. Money, yes, better career, yes, bigger club, yes, but I don't think he was ever a Pirates type of player. He was a super sport player. You would have a much better career than we would have handled him better.

And you know what happened to his career. So but financially wise, obviously at that period he was became a superstar and you know, and yeah, a very good player and a nice boy too. I was we were all shocked and surprised what happened, you know, but you can get you know, when you're in that big bubble, you get swallowed up if you're not. That's why you need managers like me, you know, Because I'll handle it better, you know what I'm saying? There is just a number you know. Because how, how do you handle that?

Because that's such a common theme, see, with our young players, you know, they sign especially for the big teams, all the money. And Pagamani Matami is another example. Pagamani I mean. How can we? How do you think we can try to help these boys a bit better? Well, there's some you can help. There's some you can't help. You know, when I played football, it was me, it was the player and the coach. Now you play football, that's the player, that's the agent, that's the owner, the CEO, the friends and then the coach because they think coaches will get fired.

They'll just. But all my time as a player, when I was young, I invested in my that's my man. What he says goes and if he says don't go out or do this, we'll yes, I was naughty. We were all naughty, but within reason. And I don't think coaches get enough grip on the team, especially at the bigger clubs. You're not in control of your, your own destiny because you these guys are, they're getting pulled in the office by football directors. They're getting pulled in the office without the coach hearing what's been said.

They they're getting the CE OS pulling them in the office without the coach. You're getting CEOs, owners of football clubs phoning players directly without the coach knowing the coach should be in charge of all those things. And I thought, and that'll let the days of the manager like the Alex Fergusons of the world until you have that type of thing again, You you're going to have this, you're going to have more of this. Because when you coach one of the big clubs in South Africa, you were just there.

Believe you me. When the coach, when they win the league at the end of the season, was the team the coach. Oh, yeah, well done. The coach should be the the big, the coach should be the biggest focus. If I said to you of a football club anywhere in the world, who's the owner? You, I don't know who's the coach? You know the coach. He said every year, you know the owner, but you don't know the coach. So we got it the wrong way around you. And I'm not saying the coach would be in charge of the of these boys of the how they live, where they live or what they do.

And yes, you try and get involved, but they're getting pooled all around and the and, and the, and the owners of phoning players. So how's the coach, other coaches this, the coaches that without the coach know you can't have that. You can just disrespect this. And then you obviously you're on a time, you're on a time bomb, you know, so and that's why you get the problems a lot with these players. And then obviously you get the agents, the agent not going to tell them the truth. Agent very really tell him the truth.

So the player is not playing. Oh, the coach doesn't like me. Yeah. You see then that the agent goes to the CEO. I want to move him. Well, do you know that he how he trained on Monday, how he trained Tuesday, blah, blah, blah. What's he doing? Have you spoken to the coach? Why? How? You know what I'm saying? You know, so I think that's why you get a lot of problems with players off the field in South Africa. And then? You move to. To Bidvis vets. Why? Why the move? I'm not always interested. The bottom line is we were selling players and we're not going to win you.

Yeah, let's be honest. They said, well, we start selling. So that team at, when we won the league three times in a row, I said, and I say it today, if we'd have kept those players together, we would have won the league 10 years in a row. Of course we had Clayton, the Palombias, Anthony Lafours, Morgan Goulds, I'm just giving you all his name. Dennis or younger. He won 12. Now stay at Super Sport, he wins 12. Do you want Morgani's this one, that one, Thomas, they're all left. So now we keep rebuilding.

And yet they say, oh, we, we got the the, the mentality in the club and we got the philosophy, but you're losing the quality and then it takes times and sometimes some way that's going to hit you. So after the third year, we won the league, we went like that. We just made the top eight. OK. Then we came again, same thing happened. If it's we saw sort of selling, moving players out, you hit the, you're going to hit the you know what I'm saying? And then you think you're bringing someone in. Oh, we've strengthened the team, but don't break our team.

Don't break down teams too quickly, too early. And that's what happened. And I'll and Witzke and obviously the CEO left and he said to me, listen, we got this project at Witz. They want to win the league. They haven't won in 100 years. You want to come is. That just here. Yeah, you should. We're going to be going to invest in the team, I said. OK, now you're talking my language, you know, let's get a few players. Not that we'll do it to the extent of Chiefs, Pirates and Sundance. We'll never invest that heavily in terms of spending and buying, but we will invest and with a clever knowledge and a tactical approach to win football matches, you know?

But is it, is it true that Vince was investing in terms of they were able to match at least three agents? Salaries and we were, we worked in a free agent market. The people. I heard one coach say I won't mention his name. He had a go at me in the media because I said well, you know, you know, they got all the players and he said Oh well, they spend money at Vince. We had free agents and I'll go through all of them. You know, there's so many of them we had got. The only one we bought was Boutique Makanazi, who cost us a We paid over the top, but we won the league and we won cups and we got in finals and we and he was a great investment.

Tyson let's wire was a captain the Bangwanari. I must go through the old team. They're all free. Yeah, freeze. So we did well there. You know what I'm? Saying, but you're able to compete like salary wise and then. Good. So the salary wise we competed better, OK, that's where the the catch was. But we never went like the clubs today. They go buy somebody for 5 million or 10 million or 8 million or or now they buy for 50 million. She's slow. But you had just a Ferreira there. That's what that's what you need.

How important is it to have someone like that in a well? That's what I found it which a breach any football club. The most important thing is not to manage down is to manage up and if you can manage that guy or that guy can manage you and you have a relationship where you know used used to pick up the phone. I mean I'm lied every 3-4 times a day to me. So in the training when we finished the phone would go how was training or he was at training watching the training and 99% of the time he watched the training with Jonathan Schloss.

They watched, so they you're off how many people? How many CE OS or Chairman's watch training every day? Yeah, yeah. Very, very. Yeah. So my CEO is watching training. So we and we had a meeting off the field. We walk off the field, we talking about this or that. So it's a daily discussion about the team where some days you chairman's you see you get them on a Friday. Oh, what's the lineup or the lineup? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't play that guys. What where were you Monday, Tuesday.

When did the runner, you know? So that's relationship we had and he would tell me, listen, we need to do this, we could have to do this, what about this? What about that? And then we would discuss. And so you need that as a coach who motivates the motivator, who motivates the motivator. So if you're the boss of a company, who motivates you? Who do you talk to to bounce things off? Because when you're winning is very easy in life, when you things are going, when things are bad, that's when you need that person to say maybe it's not as bad them looking at they look from art in I'm in looking at on my edge in the clouds here.

When you lose it, maybe they say it's not so bad, you know, and maybe you've been over or you know, you're not being realistic, you know? And tell us about. He was the best for me. Yeah, he was. He's the best. He's a great. It's an absolute disgrace in this country that a guy like him is not in football because he could take an average club and turn it into a very good club in the matter of season. Yeah, it just has two windows or something, you know? And tell us about you won the league firstly, but you also there's one game that a lot of people remember when you beat Sundowns 3 nil.

Was it the empty? Was it MTNH final? Final They played the Champions League final the next week. And you beat them three nil. What really stood out there was there was a moment that still trends today when your players were, you know, keeping the ball. At the end, show ball, yeah, they say show, but it wasn't show, but it was keeping the ball because we should have scored at the end of those passing sequences. We should have scored twice. That was the so we not got the vets. We came third, third, second and then first.

So people say, you know, both players, we were building a team. We had problems at fullback and that season we got in Klanty and we got in Nazir Ali. I'm just giving you like I was thinking and then we got this one. So that night the owner Brian Joffe was there, but this they were all there. I said to them, how much money you got? They got millions. I said take, take all your money, go to the latest bookie and back us to win this league. They said, are you joking? I said you've come third, third, second.

I said this is a year. Why? Because our team is strong enough. I looked at the bench that night. When you look on your bench and you go, wow, these guys should be starting in this team, then you know your team is strong. When you look at your bench, you go, jeez, I can't make a change. Then you've got a problem. You know what I'm saying? You look at the bench, you go, no, I'm not making a change. We leave these ones on. You know your bench is strong. You know your team is strong, your squad is strong.

And that was evidence and we started and, and I would say it today and people can say what they like. Vets was the only club that would have challenged Sundowns today because we did. We were the last team to win the league. Yes, yes. And we were, they would never want it eight years in a row, believe you me, because we would have come, we would have been in there definitely challenging. They feared coming to Moorpark. They they didn't like it. There was only one game a year of the league. But we, we and Pitzer will tell you today that we we pushed them all the way, you know, in all those league titles.

And then they won. And we came the year that we came second, we should have won the year we came third, we should have won it. And they won it. And then we came, you know. Yeah. So it's with, it's going, we only weakened South African football. We weakened South African football because of the club. It's like super sport. They're going. Were you weakening the football by bringing in, I mean, Wits was and six months later it was Maruma Galanza, relegated of clubs 100 years old, just won the league.

Yeah, that's crazy. Crazy. And, and tell us about that when when the club was sold, firstly, did you see it coming or? We with a, with a change of this, the chairman of Wits and the CE OS and there was a big change. Brian Joffe left and there was a big change. You've got a feeling that they don't have football at all. With interest. Football wasn't their game. Horse racing, rugby, $1,000,000, golf, whatever. That was the and football with Brian Joffe's little baby because he loved football. He used to come Friday night.

There was the only guy who was in that level who doesn't come with bodyguards. Why do these big rich people come with bodyguards? Why tell me why businessmen always got bodyguards? Are they up to no good? He used to come here with his child with a pack of the chips in the stand. Watch your football. You know, he's a multi billionaire. He's got a business of and he used to come in the changing rooms and you'd phone me and go for coffee and just chat about the team and you're going like you need people like this in the game because they've got football at heart.

And he used to fight against Ivan caused it to get because we didn't want to play Chief. We had to play Chiefs in the biggest state. Now he wants to play Mopar in the small stadium. Lawyers. It was lucky he had passion for his team. Once he left, he could see. It's not the same. And then obviously they pulled the plug on us, right, Which was, you know, suddenly we lost an Academy, you lost players, people are staffed, people have been here 30 odd years and that's lost their jobs. And it was a real sad time.

Real sad time. I mean once that. Was in COVID as well. COVID times, yeah, and then has the chiefs now. I mean, everyone has always waited for you to, you know, to go to the big three it. Was it was a dream. It was a dream job. So when I was a play in the 80s, I mean the glamour boys, you know, when they come in the perm D and they black like me and you know, that was the and they got the best suits and they got that. They got that look, you know, and they you know, all the woman walking in the state.

There were the buzz, the glamour boys. They were. You always thought she was if I could ever go there, you know, as as a player or a coach, you know, those days. And then when you get a chance to go and it's just the timing is just not right, you know? So you think that was you think if you had wanted to choose a different time? Well, I would have stayed the Vitz, wasn't it? I was at Vitz. You would have stayed. I was at Vitz, we weren't going anywhere so we sat in the hotel we were in, locked seven weeks, remember, locked up in.

We were in the Rose Bank Hotel and the club's been sold. We got told you lost your jobs, so I pulled all the players in. I said right, whoever doesn't want to play, yeah, leave. We've got eight games or seven games left. You can leave if you do want to play. Stay and now we all stay, OK, right. You know, you got the job in a week, in seven weeks time or six weeks time. Yeah, we know in that period the players have been sold. Tyson Lesoya, Pirates. Otto comes to me, he says I've got 2 offers from Sundowns almost.

I do. I said Sundowns doesn't suit you. What do you mean, coach? I said they don't play a football like you're going to play. They're not that type of team and you're going to struggle. The you know. Is that a great career at Pirates? Tabangwanari, Ben Motsuari, Vincent Pooley? I'm just giving all the names now. They're all everybody's going. I said something, where the hell am I going? What am I doing? I've got no job and, and all my staff. And I'm thinking she's like, I feel bad, you know, because they it's every man for himself, you know, that's that sort of gets to yeah.

And they play. I mean, Chiefs in the bubble. They were, they lost the league, remember? They were like they were like they they struggle, they chooses. So I thought and I looked at the team not thinking that you're going to go to Kaiser Chiefs. You know I mean, Ernesty, why they ever got rid of Ernest, I got no idea. He he lost the league by 1520 minutes came second. They were they they were doing well anyway, we leave the hotel every day, lose the league. We've got a job. I'm thinking, OK, here we go period of you know, and it was about two weeks later I got a phone call.

Listen, would you be interested in the job? I said you're but, but I said, what do you mean? But I said that team needs a because I could see it in the bubble. They were, we played, we played them twice in the bubble and you could see they were just, it was a free fall. You know, they were legs and and yeah, don't worry, we'll change the team. The team needs an overall. I said fine then. I mean, but are you going to be going to stick to that? You know, 'cause now I'm saying to you, you can get a few witch players.

Clanty, they signed the left back this, but now you couldn't play them. But I said sign them and loan them. Do you understand? Remember the FIFA band? Yes, yes. So we couldn't sign any players, see. Players at that time, yeah. Anyway, we go to the start the first game we can see. I can see you. I mean, we play Sundown's first games. Three. No, we play Pirates 3. No, we in the Derby, we were just you could see I'm like, but have a meeting. No, no, don't worry, we keep going. I'll play stop playing all the youngsters.

I'll stop playing all those kids. I think let's pull the team here around these kids, the goal ball machiney lucky this one, that one. But they they're not good enough. They're not ready. They're not good enough, but they're not ready for this environment. But we play in them because I'm thinking let's pull the team here. But anyway, we go in the Champions League for the first time we go yeah, and Champions League is a different style of football. It's slower. It's, you know, it's, it's horrible football to watch anyway, but we go, we go, we go.

We get in the group, we get in the group, we get out the group. First time chiefs ever out of the group in their history. We get out of a group, we go, we get we go quarterfinals, we play Aurora, we win. We play Simba now we play Simba. Simba, the one that's in the final. We get to the qualify, qualify, we play Simba. We hammer them for and all here we go there we lose Fino. So there's a bit of a Barney. That's a sun Saturday, come back Sunday. We've got to go to Black Leopards on the Wednesday.

We've got hammered. They fired me on the Thursday. I said guys we're in the semi final, the Champions League semi final. You don't want me, no problem, let me stay till the end of let me finish the campaign. 2 weeks, 3 weeks not going now at they got to the final. The rest is history. So what was said behind closed doors, what was said in the you know, it was a little bit, you know, but great club, great. It got so much potential. You saw with them when the Ned back down. I mean the whole. Mood of the whole country just.

Durban looking to stand still. Everybody was celebrating, you know, and you, you've read the comments in the media, Coach, you've got to give me players, You've got to give me players. Exactly what I said four years ago. A club like that has to keep getting the best talent, you know what I'm saying? And obviously you, you know, it's very difficult with the Sundowns. They're not going to get to the place because they've obviously got a different wage level and a different scale, which Chiefs won't go that level.

But then you've got to look at your foreign players and I say club like Chiefs need to get the best 5 foreign players. And that's the secret of all these big clubs. Your five foreign players needs to be of better quality, you know what I'm saying? You need to bring your best and that's the difference between. And you see, there are Sundowns. Now they are bringing 5460 million random players. Yeah, OK mate. Are they the best? I don't know. I think you get better. Yeah, my opinion. That's just my opinion for the money you spend.

I don't. I don't know what they're spending. But you know, you hear the talk. On the media reports. Yeah, yeah, They're spending loads and loads of millions of buying foreign players and they've gone to South South American, which is always difficult because of the language, the culture, you know, But you need to if you're not going to compete with them in the local market. So the players worth 5 million and Sundance pay 10 million, which they'll do, or 12 million for the 5 million player, which she's only pay 5.

She's might pay good wages, but they won't pay the 12. Million to get? But the club say well I'll get let me get 12, they've only given me 5. And the player the money will be most will be more Sundance they're going to go to, they're going to go. So they're not going to get the best local ones because these clubs will have, Sundance will have bid them and. Because just two questions to close the Chiefs chapter. Do you think if you were to coach private Chiefs in different times without a ban with a obviously not like Sundance, but this is an opportunity to sign players, you think 1 you would at least push Sundance because right now it's, you know, they've got no competition.

And two on the again, on this issue of style and how teams should play, Do you think there would there would be any problem for you to coach Chiefs and for people to you? Know you think, do you think the people worried about how Chiefs played in the final two weeks ago? You think people worried about? Could people tell you how the Chiefs played? No, people. What do they? What do they remember? That they were. So when the chairman sits down with me and says to me, So what style are you going to play?

I said I'm a winner, I want to win. What does that mean, coach? I don't know. We want to win. So do people today, two weeks later of the Net Bank final, saying Chiefs played badly. But they won't. They won't. Remember, they don't remember how do do. People talk about Spurs last night or the night before against Man United, how Spurs played, what did happen. Do they do they do they talk about where they finished in the league? No, they won. So people have got the Sundowns really, they're winning.

But are you really the way they play? And and when a chairman or an oner says to you we don't like your style of play, do we win? Do we win? That's the most important thing. And people forget that. You know, Springbok rugby, yeah, we're winning. We won two World Cups, three World Cups. Do we how we played. People don't care. People do care, yes, while you're there and you're winning, you could start playing with a little bit more flair, a little bit more presents, a little bit more this or that.

You can add the bit, but you need to win. And people don't remember Chiefs of average shocking season in the league, but they won the lead Bank Cup and people forget that. And you can't forget that they won a cup, you know, Magessie. Yeah. Yeah, how they play football. G was they won a cup. Yeah, Yeah, they beat Sundowns. How they played, they won. So going back to your question, there was a guy called Jeff Butler. And the the the legendary Chiefs coach. Yeah. Legendary chief coach. Yeah. Did they play good football?

I don't think so. Yeah, but they won a trophy. Trophy. Joe Freakleton, 84. I was there. They won five or six trophies that season. Did they play? Yeah. When there were 2-3 laps. Now it comes. Then it comes. Things join Bexter as well. They got criticized for the style of the footballs helicopter. What I hear there's helicopter. Helicopter. But they're winning trophies. Yeah. Do you understand what I'm saying? So do I want to play like, yes, course you want to see a nice way of playing football? Man City this year, everybody goes on about Man City style of football.

What did they win this year? Nothing. Nothing. Yeah. So people, it should be about winning. And if you can win with a bit of style, Yes. If you can win with a bit of excitement, yes, but it's got to be about winning and that's the philosophy of any top level sport. Yeah, and then and then finally coach super sport. When you come back the second time, what is the difference between the Super sport that you found now and the Super sport you? Coached well. The budget. The budget, yeah. Cut the budget, the quality.

Not in saying that I came back this two years ago and it's the first time they come in the top four since I left. Have they won trophy since I left? Yes, they won Ned Banks and but the first time they've been back in the top 4, which is we came third. We sold a few players. Yeah, You know, must I go through that? We sold the game, you know, and then you're trying to replace and you're trying to build. Last year Campbell went, you know, to Pillar, Maseko, TT, Patrick Masai, Webber. Must I go through all of them?

You know what I mean? So you're losing and then you put in younger ones in take a little bit of time, then you start moving, you know, so moving home grounds, we look, you know, we were unbeaten at Lucas Molipa and then you go up to Poloquines. And so there's all these little factors that sound like excuses. No, but these are factors that are are facts, you know what I'm saying? And it's it's, it's a fantastic club, but it's either club that needs a little bit more where we're going again, you know what I'm saying?

And for them to let you go when they did, Did you foresee it? And you know. Well, obviously, you know, but then it goes back to, you know, if like I just said about people talk about style of play, they talk about the way you play this, that what is it about? It's about winning now, isn't it? You know, so it goes back to what I said earlier. If you're not winning, you're going to go. Something's going to happen here. And, and at the end of the day, the coach goes because here's the problem, you know what I mean?

So yeah. And how sad would it be for a teammate that to get really get? Him. No, that won't get really get him, you think? They'll win the playoff or they won't make it to the. Well, I don't think it'd be in the playoffs. I mean, it's just my, you know, I, I, I, it's there's a lot of there's a lot of factors, but you know, it's, it's that was in football, you know, you walk away my result. I don't think you know what we did and how we allowed the process to go that you can debate for for days. We can talk about it for days.

Why, how, what results win, loss. That's what people see. They're not going to care about how many young players you sold, how the other way you played, how many chances you missed, how you dominated the games. People don't care. They see. And I'll go back to all the young coaches coming to the game is the most important thing in football. The two PS played and points, all the stuff in between. It's like I always say to you, a chairman will phone you on a Friday. How's the team? And then you're your coach now is trained.

Hey, the boys are looking sharp. They buzz in the energy come Saturday loose. Then the chamber finds. So what was? So when the chairman finds you on a Friday, he's telling the chairman now the team is bad, the mood is bad, players are trained badly and then you win Saturday. But you told me the team was bad. Do you understand what I'm going to say? So it's all about the results people don't see. If you're not involved and ingrained into a football team and you're there every day and you feel in the dressing room, smell in the dressing room, you're going to feel the dressing room.

Because in the dressing room is where things happen, get said what how people train and what is going on you. And you look from a distance and you come in on a Saturday and you watch it. But why? Why is it like this? I'm paying this guy. Look at the money I'm paying him, but he's missing a goal or you know. We've basically covered here, not in that much detail, but we've covered basically a whole coaching career very quickly. So if we just have, I don't know how much time we have, just very quickly, if we can just discuss just some of the current affairs.

Just in our under 20s, we won the F Con.

You've introduced a lot of young players before and when you look at this crop, I don't know how much time you had to look at the. Do you think it's a group that can hopefully graduate and, you know, go to Bufana and. You'll generally find the best, the best solution is you take this group and they go through together 23's Olympics and they go to the first team never happened because 80% of them will fall off the bus. Yeah, Yeah. For whatever reason, they get snapped up. Yeah. They. Their careers, yeah.

Yeah. Because of external things off the field. So 80% of the squad will go missing more than more than that. I don't want that to happen, but it's going to happen. And then you'll find late developers come from somewhere and and playing the Bufana team or the national team. Yeah. Can you keep the group together? You would love to. I mean, I just, you know, there's a lot of players, there's certain elements of the team that I still think we don't have, you know what I mean? Proper number nines, you know, those type of thing, yes, you know, and as you go up the levels, you're going to get exposed more with a little bit more, you know, physicality in certain areas and that type of thing.

So, yeah, they've done fantastically well, you know, and they've played against some bigger, stronger boys and, and, and there was a they looked like there was huge togetherness there, you know, And that that's something that that can that can take you to areas where when they go to the World Cup and now we're talking to maybe a different level, you know, you're going to play against different. But for for the experience, what we need to do is we need to get more players at the country. Yes. Now until we do that again, we cannot become really, I don't think a strong international force.

And the more we get at playing at at other leagues, the better will we become, I think, and the better the things we can bring back here as well, you know. So that doesn't mean a local league doesn't fit it or make it. But I do think we there's a lot of players in South Africa and the problem is they're not going to be able to move because clubs are keeping them. They're not allowing it where the club's going to say that we want 50 million, they're going to offer 40, they're going to say no. And when you offer fifty, they want 60.

It's just I'm just giving it to you that it's simplified before maybe. And I think opportunities should be given a lot to these players to move if they can move. How far do you think a sundry Campbell can go? Sundry Campbell has got a mind better than a 30 year old experienced defense professional. He's got a mindset of already, and I just hope that, and I don't think it will happen that this it's he's going to have a little bit of a tip because it's, you know, the the lights is going to start shining.

But he's got the mentality of to to want to improve, to want to win. He enjoys training. He's a boy that I used to, you know, when you come to training as a coach, every day, there's certain players you go, oh, jeez, this is like pulling teeth here, this guy. But he's a guy that excites you at training because he's he wants to win in the five of sides. He wants to win. He wants to shoot, he wants to score or he wants to, you know, Benny was like that at 17. Yeah, it was a big thing about Benny, the desire to want to win in training.

And Sandra Campbell's got that and he's at the right place, right club. Did he go too early for me? Oh yes. I think he'd have waited another year. But what they're doing with him now, they're grounding him by not letting him go to the under 20s. And then this thing now it's a short term thing. And obviously it's affecting him now because, oh, I should have been there. But short term, let's forget short term. Let's look at the picture down the road. And right now the bigger picture is for him to stay where he is and, and getting that first team and believing me, that big move will come too.

A Bundesliga, maybe English Premier League or something, you know, that's where, that's where the game is, you know? And finally, coach Sundowns play the Champions League final and firstly, I mean you as a coach, you've coached at the highest level. You know what difficult it is to go into Africa? How impressive is it? I mean the fact that they're going to semi finals now every year and. OK, so there's a Sundowns way of doing things and then there's a a bit sort of super sport way of doing things, yes.

So Sundowns will go three days before with 40 people, Super Sport will go day before with 18 people. So preparation is is I do think the league, the PSL help the team is much more now in the Champions League putting games off. Yes, yes, changing fixtures. I'll give example when I was at Vitz, we play Chipper in East London on the Tuesday night and we play now luckily on Saturday night in Egypt. OK, they're in East London Wednesday, get in the plane right. That was Wednesday night was Wednesday, get back here Thursday we play now luckily on Saturday night in Egypt, go home, get the change of stuff, fly Thursday night.

We just came right there Friday morning, don't even train play Saturday night, unlucky 70,000 people. It was the other club. They there will be a Wednesday fixture. It would be and we lose 1 nil or something, they come back, we beat them. Yeah. So the preparation is a big thing. I think clubs can afford to, you know, have a little bit more scope with numbers, a little bit more scope with medical staff, all these type of things. And and they do things differently and better. And their focus is certainly that in that that that area.

And obviously they can sign extra players which will give them a little bit for the long run where we say we lose our six or seven or out of the out of the 11, we lose one or two out of our best six or seven. We got a problem, you know. And you see our sentences dominating the league in eight years in a row. Do you think the problem is that Sun Oz is just spending too much? Or do you think the problem is that everyone else is going backwards? No, I think, I think, I think the gap has got bigger with the haves and the have nots.

So there's 3 or 4 clubs we can, we can, who can pay decently. And the other ones are really gained from hand to mouth unless, but do people invest, want to invest in his club? But because they feel there's, they're not getting the fair shake from the club, they're not getting, you know, where's the money going, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, all the owners trustworthy enough to, to put the money to give them 10 million on the front of the jersey. I don't know, you know what I'm saying. So these are the questions that get asked in the corporate law.

And then I hear statements come out one chamber saying they're not going to sponsor certain clubs because of certain things. And I'll go like, maybe you should look at yourself, You know what I'm saying? You know, before, because what, what you do off the field is certainly maybe getting out there. But so there's a lot of, there's a lot of things. Nobody can compete at Sundance, not even Chiefs of Pirates with the with the, with the transfer fees of buying of players. And I don't think Chiefs of Pirates want to go there.

They can still get away with it, having good teams because they've got the support base, they've got the numbers, you know, and they could, you must always remember A-Team like Vitzel Superport. To win the league you need an extra 10 points because Chiefs and Pirates get an extra 10 points by having a crowd when they go to Cape Town. We go to Cape Town, there's one man and a dog there. They go to Cape Town, there's 23rd. They get more people away from home than do stadium. So that gives them support, gives them motivation, it gives them intimidation, it gives them all those type of things.

You know what I'm saying? It's very difficult for clubs to lesser clubs to win leagues. Then that's why you're going to be so much better, you know, and the self mode of when the Sundowns super sport of its play a golden arrows in these are 150 people. You got to you got to have that motivation as a player to say hey, and that's why players want to move on to go and get the Derby at 90 thousands and and those type of things. So it's very difficult for these smaller clubs to challenge. You know, I think the gap is just getting bigger and bigger and wider now, you know?

And how do you see the the final playing out? This part of this team is a good team. Very good. You know, they've got a guy that can score goals for for free for fun. I think they've got AI think they've got a good defensive structure. Yes, they'll be a little bit counter techie and sit off and and Sundowns don't play maybe at the speed that you know, it should be a little bit quicker the way they play. They play in these daytime games where they feel free and it works for them. I I don't if they haven't got a little bit of a lead going there, I think it's going to be but I think Sunday's a better away.

Yeah, yeah, because the other teams will come out a little bit more, you know, they'll come onto you a little bit more space will be there a little bit more, but I think they need a bit of a lead to go away when they go in the second leg, you know. But this game, if it was unlucky, I would say because they're not unlucky about the same as the force that they used to be. But this team is a little bit different. They, they got a little bit more determination in him. You know, they, they, I mean the coaches, he's really, you can see he's up for it.

And and I think it's a club that's wanting to achieve. We're likely have achieved so much. Sometimes you get that, you know, you'll be careful. Winning is good, but winning breeds, you know, you've got to keep winning and you've got to keep that motivation. It's like Sundowns now. There's a group of players there. That time is they're going to have to move them out through because you'll get so bored of winning. And I don't say you know in a in a bad way, but winning is good, but it's also bad in a way because you need to keep that the mentality.

And by keeping either the coach has got to go. Well, the players have got to go. If you're keeping the coach, players must go. But if you, you know the coach can go bring a new motivation in a new way of doing things because the players, you're going to have to change when you're winning, you need to change. And as a coach, how do you manage these two legged ties because you want to get a big advantage at home but at the same time. They still got the way goals count then. Yeah, yeah, we'll still.

Count in Africa, in Europe it. Doesn't find that balance. Well, in Africa doesn't count anymore. It still counts. It still counts. Yeah, it's in the, it's in Europe. Where? Oh. Yeah, sorry, sorry. Still counts here. Yeah, by goal means 2, you know, and this team could score. They can score that's. That this team could score. That's why I say they need a bit of a lead and they need a A1 nil or two nil. No goals against leading, you know, So I don't know. I mean, listen, he looks a little bit. They look a little bit.

What's the word? Not lakish. They look a little bit at their time again, you know what I'm saying? Sunday. And to be fair, it's if they it's hard to say this, but it'll be a bit of under achievement this season, you know, if they don't win this. Yeah. They just won the league. You know, they lost a bloody Calcom Cup, they lost the top eight cup and the Nedbank, you know. So the league is forgiven always, you know. So I don't mean it like that. But I'm what I'm trying to say is they will be bail of a disappointed just winning the the league.

OK, they've got to the final, which is the the first priority. They should be in the final, minimum semi final, but they should be in the final most years now where the club has gone and not to win it. That's going to be a poof. Yeah, there'll be a certain a lot of introspection, a lot of head scratching if they don't win this thing, you know, because of the investment in it. And finally, coach you, you've now joined you joined the unemployed case. This is not for me. Do you, do you still have, you know you still want to go back?

Like right now I should be on the gross coaching, you know, I should be an athlete. It's driving me crazy this I can't do this. I've been off my head. I can walk so much on the beach. I can play so much golf. I can ride my bicycle so much. I can go for walk so much and read books and coffee shops and it's but I can't do this. I'm not. I'm nowhere near at that stage. But at this stage in your, in your career, in your life, what kind of a project are you looking for? Well, you want a project where you want a realistic club?

Yeah, realistic club to what you've got, not unrealistic where you had a club where we must win the league. Are you joking? You want to be at a place where you're going to be given a little bit of leeway to realistic. I need that player. Oh, it costs 50 million, what we call we can only spend two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to give you an example. Yes, yes. So you need to be realistic. You need to have a. Situation where we're going to, we have a good youth structure. You need to be in a situation where we have a good facility to train, you need to have a good home facility and all these type of things.

And you and you have a good interaction with the person that owns the club or the chairman or whatever it is. So that's what you would like to do? Yeah. Do you get that? That's the real world. Every club has hiccups and bumps along, you know, these bumps and how do you, how you gonna, how you gonna go through the bumps together? You know, it's knee jerk. Are you at OK? Well, I mean, and there's too much of that these days, yeah. There's too much chopping and changing and and you know, I look at Stella Moss, you look at them now, they've got a coach for 8-9 years now and they're really competitive now, you know, so that's what you want.

It's been a gradual year and they've had bumps. They should, they were right at the bottom two years ago. They were at the bottom of the league and they got reigners from us and they scored ten goals in the second round and they came, you know, and they've been really competitive. When they hit another tip again, the chairman will know they've been there with this coach. They can come out of this tip again. And that's, that's what you need, you know, and you'll find the football will be better on the whole in the league.

But when you're chopping and changing, you're not gonna get that. You're not gonna get that good. Thank you so much for giving us the time and that we really wish. You all the best. Hopefully you'll be back in a job soon. And yeah, let's see how it goes. OK. Thank you. Thank you.

South African Football Through The Eyes OF Coach Gavin Hunt

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