South African Football Through The Eyes OF Coach Gavin Hunt

Pirates in the in the top eight never get it.

They beat us five more at Grand Stadium.

Supporters wanted to kill me. I had to go to the police escort

in under the kit at the back of the boot of the car.

Their game. People say, you know when they

when you read things in the newspaper like I sold this one.

I don't sell the players, I'm the coach, the club sell the

players. They want financial, they see

the money. Leave the money in there and.

Then they say we'll get on with it.

OK, so this is a better coach than this coach?

Yeah, because of his record. The best coaches are the ones

who work with nothing and produce something.

Yeah, but it's so much easier when you've got the best

quality. So you also pick Coriola, put

Corioli charge of Stoke City. He's not winning the league.

No chance. Did you want to go to leave?

Because I know you haven't. Seen.

There we go. So, you know, I'll sit, I'll sit

in the media and I'll listen to Take a talk.

Yeah. And he talks the biggest load of

nonsense. Because that's not the truth.

Then, Clay. Just like a bottle of tomato

sauce. Hi Coach Gavin, how are you?

I'm OK, man. Yeah, Coach, with the limited

time that we have, you've recently done thousand games, I

think. Yeah.

So I think what we want to touch on today, and obviously you've

had such a long career, there's no way we can go into detail,

would be here the whole day. Yeah, you're here.

We'll just touch on a few, you know, a few aspects of your

career, a few you know some of the clubs and also just want to

discuss some of the current things that are happening in our

football. But if we can just start with

with your career, you were a player, you played.

Yeah, I played for a Linux 81 to 94.

Yeah, so came to the junior ranks at amateur clubs, amateur

clubs, you know, the football, amateur football was very was

very good in those times. And that's where a lot of the

scouting took place and got scattered from the you know,

there used to be a inter schools competition throughout the

country. Yes, so and we got to the final

of that the Cape Town team team in Cape Town got to the final of

that two twice and obviously got scattered from there.

And it was signed a Linux at 1718 and I made my debut year

and that was it. And and back then, I mean

football was not as I understand it, way before my time, but it

was not fully professional at some.

Point. Well, we weren't fully

professional, sort of. Amalgamation took place in about

78 yes, when all the leagues you know they came together and that

7879 I only came in obviously 81.

So I came through the tough times when there's a lot of

teething problems well it still is but generally then there was

a lot of problems you know and it was really tough but the

football then was we obviously we all had to work and then we

trained in the evenings. You know, we got paid for it,

which was sort of semi professional.

But yeah, the game only sort of went I would think about in the

later 90s. When the PFL.

It went 989798 way after the Nations Cup.

It went sort of full time ish Salaries jumped considerably

more money came into the game. So, yeah, so but we were pretty

much part timers, all working head jobs, go to work at 7, come

home at 5, go to training at six or by 6, you know, and that was,

that's how it worked and. In terms in terms of quality, do

you think it showed like what was their big difference in the

the players that you see now and then bearing in mind that now

they fully professional? Oh yeah, huge difference.

People can say what they're like.

You know, there's a saying in football, the old you get, the

better you think you were. You know, if you ask anyone, you

ask your parents. Yeah, they think everything was

better. Better than you know, but

believing me it was, I think, I think things were.

I think the players are a lot more if it would game

intelligence, Yes, yes, I think there's a lot more around game

intelligence. There were a lot more around the

game where today it's broken down into training sessions and

this and fitness and diets and you know, yeah, we try to eat

quite professionally. We had a guideline but certainly

the training was very running based training, not very ball

based training. So those type of things.

The things have changed completely and the game has

changed. The game has changed.

Has it changed for the better? I don't know.

Has it changed for I don't know So, but I certainly did feel

that we had a bit, we played a lot in the junior football.

We played a lot more football. So the game taught us more then

certainly what I think it's. I mean, I look at some of these

kids now that play under 14, under 15, they're playing 20

games a year. I mean, are you joking?

We used to play 20 games a month, you know, from our school

and play for club and you know, so there was a lot more

football. I thought the game was a better

teacher. And how was it playing?

Because I mean, this is the period when your guys achieves

pirates that were massive. I mean, they still are.

Pirates weren't Pirates were a big club, but they weren't very

good in the 80s. I mean, there were a lot of a

lot of relegation. Yeah, they won a cup here and

there, but in the 80s they were a poor team of the Chiefs era.

They should have got relegated one or two years.

Pirates. Chiefs was the team.

There was no Sundowns. Remember Lodi United?

Yeah, it was Lodi United. Maybe the the grey and black

team, Yeah. And they sort of, you know, then

they're about until. Well, hope he came in and put

all the money in. Well, where he got the money,

it's another story. Yeah.

So yeah, Chiefs was the biggest team.

Pirates obviously had the fall in Swallows is obviously very

big in the 80s, you know, Swallows.

Swallows and Chiefs were really the the the the sort of two big

teams. Pirates was very big obviously,

but certainly they've always had, they had internal problems

there and then until they sorted their club out and you know,

they were different club after that you.

Know and I've heard you say before that playing against

someone like teenager was like a nightmare.

Exactly. Well, I think for me in in

today's football, there's not enough footballers.

So what do you what do you mean by that?

I said people wear that natural ability in the flare and the guy

like teenage, I mean teenage, it was like a left winger come, but

he would go get the ball from the goalkeeper and play one twos

up the field. He was just a natural national

footballer. Beautiful balance, rhythm,

speed, quickness. I mean, if you look at him, you

think, oh, there's nothing of him, but he was, he was so

balanced and graceful. He sort of, as I always say, if

there was snow, you wouldn't make any footprints on the snow

because he ran so beautifully on the top of it, the grass and and

the balance and everything. And there's a player like that

that certainly, you know, could have played at a much better

level and what he played at year.

But he was a huge hero. And still, he's a, for me, one

of my fan favourites, you know, obviously played against him

lots of times, but difficult games, you know.

And coach, when you retired, you then went into coaching.

Was it something that you, you know, you, you?

So, so when I was playing to earn extra money, yeah, we used

to coach at schools. Yeah.

So that's what I say. What doesn't happen a lot to

these, these professional footballers today, they train in

the in the daytime, they finish after lunch, whatever.

They should be coaching at schools.

So what I did, I went to coach at the schools.

So earned extra money. It was good money.

It was more money than I was earning in playing, playing.

So I I got into that coaching bucket.

I was in my early 20s. So I coached at schools and then

I got chosen funny at work say I got chosen for the provincial

under 16 nest, the coach, the Oscar, can I coach the national,

the provincial teams which is western province there down

there. So I said sure and then I went

luckily enough of the the tournament was we had off period

and I went to the tournament and they picked me for the South

African under 16 coach. I was only 20 odd 20. 20 odd.

2324 and we only played one game or whatever.

And then the sort of went from there, you know, and the bugs

sort of bit. And I and I was coaching all

through my playing career, but coaching kids, which is not

really my, it is a bit difficult for me.

And then obviously when I had a bad injury, I was about 3233, I

stepped my Achilles tendon and I was just, and then I was nine

months out. We had no medical aid.

You're on your own. You had no rehabs like they do

today. I mean, the player comes back

from Achilles tendon after 7-8 months.

You bet. I was 99, scratches, couldn't

walk and and obviously it was affecting my job because we had,

you know, tried to look after my job.

I couldn't and I was a RIP, a RIP on the road.

I was in and out of a car all day.

I couldn't walk, I couldn't drive a car properly.

So my bosses weren't very happy with me.

So I thought and then the guy offered me a job at Vesco to go

home, which was my first coaching job.

He said what are you doing? I said, well, I can't, I'm not

going to play for the next first six months or eight months.

He said why don't you come coach your team?

I said OK, I'll do it for a short time.

Where was Vasco? They in what league?

And they were in the Vela league, OK, Which is the Mosapi

league? Yes, yes, Which is the First

Division? Yeah.

So. And I did that for about 3

months, never got paid. So I stopped there and then I

went to Seven Stars and, you know, then I sort of went from

there. And that seven star setup?

That's where you discovered a young Benny.

Yeah, Benny was 17, and the first day I walked in there, I

said this boy will play in Europe.

Listen to me, you're joking. And I was proved right.

At the end of that season we sold him to IX Amsterdam for

$1,000,000. I think it was, I think.

It was a lot of money back there.

We bought Combies and buses and and I always said today that

Club 7 Stars would have been challenging the top clubs in

this country. But at all the infrastructure,

all the marketing, we had Adidas sponsorship pick and pay.

We had a owner that was very forward thinking.

Rob Moore, a guy that you know, was a way ahead of his time in

South African football. Yes, yes.

And it would have been a huge club today and the seven stars

of the seven townships in Cape Town.

And we had a good support base. You know, we had a much more

black team than a colour team in Cape Town.

So it was a different a different concept, a different

feel to the thing and and and what he did very cleverly got

those old ex Kaiser Chiefs players, Chipper Molotedi,

Trevor Minton, Kulu, Henry Conway.

Who else said I have the I'm talking now.

I took in 90s now I'm going back a few years.

Yeah, so and then we created the support base and and that club

would have been huge. I mean, we played Chiefs.

I think we had more supporters and chiefs that day, you know.

And we lost to Sundowns in the semi final of the Bob save on

penalties. That team at Chuku for Tomba, we

were a we were a First Division team.

We lost on penalties. That was the only game we lost.

We went 78 games unbeaten. Yeah.

You didn't find find your way to Hellenic.

I went back there. So what happened is my

brother-in-law at that time, Mark Byrne was running the youth

Academy and he was taking the first team, but he wanted to run

the youth and and I think me and Rob were come to, we come to an

end. I was there four years.

They wanted to go the Dutch route.

They found they, they saw their backsides eventually about that,

which is good because they find that, you know, that always

something foreigners better than local, which they always do.

And, and after six months, they fired the foreigner.

They bought back a local and the team went back.

That was after I left and I went back to Lenny and what happened

in seven stores that they wanted me to go full time and I had a

very good job And I said, well, I'm and I could train in the

mornings like we did and still do my job.

But they said no, no, you've got to be full time.

And Lenny said no, no, you can keep your job and we'll pay you

double your money. So you had another job outside?

Football. I had, football I was an agent.

I used to sell. There was a brand called Mitre.

Do you ever heard of Mitre? My to the soccer.

Ball, soccer ball. I was an agent for them.

OK, so Jingles Pereira, You know Jingles Pereira.

Yeah, He was an agent in the cutting.

I was an agent in Western Cape and down in, in Durban was a

Grand Mcdade. He played for Durban United.

We had all these agents around the country.

So we sold balls and kit and shin guards and to all the

retail stores. It was a, it was a good job, a

good business, you know, and they wanted me to give that up.

I said, no way, you're joking because I can get fired

tomorrow. I'll lose my job.

So and then Lenny, obviously I played there 14 years and they

said come back. And so it was a a bit of a

smooth transition for me. I just went across the next

week. Yeah, but at the time Hellenic

was like very was a was structured team, wasn't it?

Great structured club. Youth development club.

Yeah, the first best youth development club in the country.

Nobody. They won that.

The the the the the the Celtics Colts league.

Remember it was a Celtics culture league in South Africa.

They won that league ends down to many times produced so many

players to the first team. The club was all about youth

development using their own players obviously cut costs and

then sell. So you know, owners cut produce,

sell, which is pretty much experienced now most of my life.

So you can never be a coach where you you can say, well, I

want him, him, him. You're sort of getting him and

then building him and then selling him and then you sit

with the problems afterwards. So yeah, that's what happened.

And we had a very good season or two.

And then the third season, I think was about the third season

there we hit a bit of a speed wobble.

We sold our striker to Denmark. We sold our goalkeeper to

Norway, beat Milbarron. We sold Bradley August to

Denmark. We sold one or two of our

players. And we just couldn't, you know?

Did you coach the Grant Young? I coached.

I played with Grant and I obviously coached him.

There was quite a few players actually, yeah, yeah.

That I played with and coached Michael Allen.

He was winger I think. Michael Allen was the center

midfield player. Left footed though.

No right footed. OK, he worked for kickoff or

something. He was a kickoff, though.

Yeah, I know my. Allen, you were kickoff and

touchline media at those times they started kickoff.

So he played for me. I played with him.

Grodd Young I played with and coached.

Yeah. Craig Rosley.

Craig Rosley I played with and coached.

See, there's quite a few, there's a whole lot of list.

So it was AI enjoyed my time back there, but I knew it was a

a stepping stone for me just to get a bit more experience.

What's your story? Not you know, and yeah, then

obviously that came to an end very dramatically.

And then, you know, it's amazing.

I owner of a football club. He's passed away today.

He phoned me six months later and said, listen, I made the

biggest mistake in my life. Please come back from That's

when I said no, you know, when I was already on my way, you know?

But I mean, if you had a Lenny, can you dream while a structured

team? You know, I was in Cape Town,

I'm from Cape Town, it's my home team, team I played for.

The marriage was made in heaven and they just had to be a little

bit patient. How do you then find yourself

inventor? Well, that's an interesting

story. I mean, I've told this 100

times. David Adela was, so David

Tadella was, he was in the police force and he was in, he

did Kaiser chief security, yeah. And then he ended up being the

PSL security. So when the Lennox used to come

up, you know those days you need the security because it was a

bit violent in the stadiums. I'll tell you stories in the

stadiums, you know. So we had to, and so I knew

David and I was out of work and I got a phone call out of the

blue two weeks or three. I think it's about 3 weeks to go

before the start of the and they just got promoted to the PSL.

He said to me listen hey come here, blah blah.

So I packed the bag about this big thinking I'm going for the

weekend and I ended up being here a year and it was one of

the best years of my life. And and how was the adjustment?

Because huge. And I mean, I, I don't mean to

say this in a bad way, but obviously you can't compare like

a structure like Hellenic with like a black.

Athletic, you had a club that was there for 20-30 years, 40

years. You're a good structure, good

paying systems, but it wasn't, the pay was very good, but yet

you know, you got your money on time.

There was training facilities, you know, everything was done

properly. Where you go to Black Leopards,

it's a new club. Just come in the league, just in

the PSL. There's a lot.

David obviously very experienced, knows the league,

but in terms of running the club a lot had to be done.

So with a little bit of experience I had and David's

experience, I think we, we put it on, you know, on a nice path.

And then obviously, yeah, I think we had, I mean, we had a

fantastic season, you know? And in terms of off the field, I

mean, a white boy grew up in Cape Town.

Yeah. Being in vendors, them Longo.

How is it? Yeah.

How was? Well, firstly, I mean, I'd have

to tell you it's 40° every day, yeah.

Yeah, I'm from, I'm from up there, so.

You know, so Toronto, Toronto, Sebasta, You know Sebasta?

Yeah, yeah. At the.

Top of the yes, yes. We trained there, you know, that

was the biggest problem I had And, and I think that was a big

for David living in Johannesburg at the time.

I said we need a facility, David to train.

You can't. And I think that's the biggest

problem in the PSL. And I think the PSL has to have

better standards being and, and, and things put on the club

conditions that where do you train?

What facilities? I mean, I, I mean, I don't want

to mention the club's name, but it's big clubs, people who are

well up in the, in the, in the echelons of football.

And if you've seen where the team's train, that's a disgrace.

That's a disgrace and that and that's been the biggest problem

in South Africa. When a club gets sold or

franchise gets sold, you're selling a franchise, you're not

selling a training facility, office asset.

There's no, there's nothing. There's just a bus and players

and and a shell. And I think we're not leaving

anything behind. So when we pass on, I think

people are passing on through the game, but not leaving

anything behind, not building anything.

It was like so every day, isn't it?

There's no been nothing been built.

There's no infrastructure, there's no and people are just

looking after today and not worried about tomorrow and we

should leave. I always say when we leave

football we should leave it in a better place than when we found

it and I don't think we're doing that in South Africa.

It's a big, that's a big gripe of mine that PSL clubs, you must

see where the players are changing in their course.

It's unacceptable for this day and age, it's unacceptable.

And I mean, you're close to that like that likes of Coxwell.

Rachi Videla, that's, that's a, that's an interesting story.

He was a Dynamos, which is the biggest opposition to black

leopards. So we had to get him.

I think David paid 10,000 rent for him.

And I said no, he said no, I'm not paying him.

I said, David, we need this guy. This is a guy that can help us.

And you know, he was proved right.

He was fantastic for me and we still talk today.

He's he works in the correctional services.

He's got a job there in that Leo Corp.

Yes, yes. Yes, yeah, we still talk today.

And you had a great season there.

We were sick in it off way. I remember I arrived there three

weeks before the season started. We hardly had a we had a a

nucleus of players, but we needed so the few players extra

and it was a rush job. I didn't know the players, they

didn't know me. I mean it was really, but it was

a match made in heaven. We we hit that straight away and

and the the attitude of the players, the people are the best

thing they invent. And I don't mean I'm not saying

this because obviously, but the people are fantastic people.

They were supportive to the team.

They came in, they came in the stadium, which the full that

stadium. Yeah.

Yeah, she was. I mean, the game we beat, you

know, some of the games beat Chief, say 3.

No, what a game. I could never forget it, you

know, and we built A-Team there around Bolondo, remember,

Siquivili, Siquivili. We had Coxwell, we had Clamini

with Vuji, Karivi, McDonald, Nashidivi, Christian.

I had, you know, people. Togozani Manguni at the back.

At the back there Romo Suto was my goalkeeper who's.

Coaches. He was no coach.

Or team Ramazuli, Raymond Cineo. You know, we had really a good

teammate. A good team, Yeah, a good

teammate. Hardworking, honest, you know.

And then swallows, I think a lot of people really, I mean

everyone saw what you did at Leopards, but I think swallows

was when most people really started to take.

You know as well as you'll get more recognition.

Wouldn't you? Because it's a hurting.

And David was very upset with me and but I was, you know, what

happened was he left it late and we were coming right.

We were right at the end of the season last game and he started

he must stay. And I'd really, you know, they

made contact and said listen. And he said it was a little bit

about the money, but also about moving forward as a coach, you

know? The next step?

I don't know if we could have done that again at Leopards

another season if we didn't invest in the team, you know,

and investing, meaning, you know, getting one or two.

It was very difficult to get players to come there, you know,

play. I don't want to live there, you

know, you know, so there were those type of things and I just

felt the Swallows was a certainly a bigger football club

with a you know, at that stage. I think Leopards could be

fantastic football club. You know, if you just, you know,

reinvest and and they get in the PS, I think that they get in the

PSL again, I think they'll kick off again, you know, because

they got support in that, you know, the Swallows.

Yeah, Swallows was as amazing. I never get remember that.

It was amazed meal days. So we used to play at FNB

Stadium, the charity. Charity Cup, yeah, like a day

tournament, so. I leave leopards.

Obviously Dave was upset with me.

I was. It hurt me to leave because I

didn't want to leave. Where do we draw leopards in the

first game? Gosh.

And then 9:00, When was 9? You could play 911 o'clock 3:00

and it's 90,000 people in the stadium.

The hammerus. 3 nil Hammerus. I was swallowed yeah you see you

shouldn't have left because this team is rubbish.

I was you know this team. I said look, what should we end

up? You know I said in my mind and

see where you end up you know and we started the supporters

wanted we play and then we drew pirates in the in the top eight

never get it. They beat us 5 nil at Grand

Stadium supporters wanted to kill me.

I had to go to the police escort in under the kit at the back of

the boot to the car. I'm like, do I really need this

lipids? They love me.

There I was, you know, I was could do what I like there.

And then we slowly swallowed. We came 4th that year.

I remember that, yeah. Fourth highest position.

They finished, you know, for a long time and then obviously we

kept in the top four, top five. I was in six years, you know.

And and how difficult was it competing with?

I mean, you still did not have the resources.

So swallows, we were selling club so I used to work with a

guy called Leon Prince. I know, Leon Prince.

Yeah, Leon Prince, I feel for him.

What the club did to him personally, financially killed

him. And I don't think he's ever

recovered. You know, his family.

I mean, he had threats and, and it just, he got to an age we

couldn't, you know, it was just, it was just listen, they never

really accepted him. But Sulla's best time was under

Leon Prince, results wise. We won the cup, we were in the

cup final, we were in the top four, top five.

We sold players, kept the club afloat.

And then obviously that I left and then they really struggled,

you know? It used some mean duty chiefs.

Yeah, I didn't. So there again people say, you

know, when you read things in the newspaper like I sold this

one, I don't sell the players, I'm the coach, the club sell the

players where they want financial, they see the money.

And the money and then? They say we'll get on with it.

I'm saying, well, you sell my best player I need to replace,

you know, But they how? Good was he though menu because

he was one of my favorite players.

Menu was the biggest underachiever as a footballer.

Biggest underachiever. He was lazy, but he had the best

football brain of anybody. In terms of football.

I had to play we. Understood the game.

And, and he was, I mean, it was a funny story because he, he was

out of contract walking the street and was really kicked him

out. I, I was driving, I was driving

around Range Stadium. This is a true story.

And I saw him running around different race course.

So what do you I stopped the cars.

What are you doing? Because now I'm out of contact.

And I said come to training tomorrow, six, three months

later without a job, he was in the final team three months.

So there was I said to him, listen, you know, you're the

glue. Yeah, you can make our team

play, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But you need to get fit. You know, he always had a weight

problem a little bit over heavy. And I got him playing and and he

was fantastic for me and he could play.

I told you, listen, you had to go to Chiefs because the money

was double bigger club, blah, blah, blah.

But I said there, you're not going to be the main guy.

Yeah, and he wasn't. With me, you're the main guy

when you go there. You had doctors and the shoes

and you had a coach that he was never going to get on with.

Dmitri Ted. Yeah.

I said you're never going to get on with a guy like it, is he?

You know? Yeah.

He's not like me. Yeah, totally different.

Yeah, me. I'm going to give you the range.

He's going to be, you know. So.

Yeah. And then he phoned me and then

he went to Sundowns and I said you, you you came for money.

But it's going to you're going to come to an end, you know what

I'm saying? And when you get to super sport,

firstly, why leave silos? You had a good thing going

there. Well, as well as I, I, well,

obviously you leave for you think that the team is better,

you've got more opportunity to win coaches and obviously the

money's better. Yeah.

So people that don't need their daily coach tell you is you're

going to you want to go where you can win.

Yeah, so you at a club, you say, well, this, we can't go any

further with this team. We're not going to reinvest.

The owner's got no money. We need to go to a club where So

when a coach, the people say, oh, what a great coach.

Yeah, you need good players, don't talk to anybody.

We say this is a better coach than this coach because of his

record. The best coaches are the ones

who work with nothing and produce something.

But it's so much easier when you've got the best quality.

So you ask the Pep Coriola put Pep Coriola in charge of Stoke

City? He's not winning the league.

No chance. What are you joking with me?

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Yeah, Yeah. So the point I'm going to say is

you, you get approached and you say, listen, this is a

situation. I I went to Leon.

I said, he said to you, listen for your, for your career.

This is what they're offering me.

I can't offer you that. I said, this is what they offer

me. Look at the team, look at the

club. That's, you know, it's and he

and he rightly said, you know, you've done your six years.

He said, oh, 6-7 years. And yeah, off I went, you know?

And then when you get to super sport, we, I mean, we are very.

It was a huge rejection for me to go there for the players.

Yeah, we knew they. Didn't accept me there.

We're fairly new channel, but we've recently interviewed Gaga.

Oh yeah. And he told us a story.

He says when you arrived, it just was not working with the

player. No, they were used to, you know,

they were used to pizza. And you came in, you were

different and initially you clashed with the players.

It didn't really work out. You clashed with him, but.

Today and today. What is he going to say today

about me? Yeah, he's.

Got a lot of respect for you. And he says eventually you

understood them. They understood and you won the

league. So yeah, take us through that

first season. So I'll never forget the first

day I walked in there. I walked in there without

anybody introducing me to the players as well.

No CEO, no chairman, no nothing. So you walk in there, I'm a new

coach, you know that type of field and they've had a coach

for 6-7 years and that coach has brought most of those players

here. So it's always going to be that,

you know, so, so I'll never forget the first day they were

sitting there. It was it was 8:30.

Everybody sit in the chat. I said, well, what are you guys

doing here? Let's get on the field.

Are we waiting for you to talk to us?

So talk to you about what? So they were used to that and

then they would go train at 10 or past 10 after that talk for

an hour. In addition to that was the way

he did it me, I'll say we'll talk on the field.

So you know, so there was a huge change in the training times

change the training. It's it's like that with energy.

When somebody takes over from me, there's going to be that you

know, always be. So you know, people get used to

coaches and and the way they do things and people don't like

change. People don't like change.

So when you sit in a routine, you got to work, you got to get

and all of a sudden I'm saying, you know, you come to work at 7.

Now I've been starting up. I used to be working at

opposite. Yeah, yeah.

Why are we working at seven? Yeah, Yeah.

Well, if you work at 7:00, you can finish at three.

If you work at 9, you're going to finish at 5.

What's do you want to work? What do you want to do?

And then, and then they say, oh, the style of the.

I love the way the style of the football.

I don't, I'm not. I don't know what style.

Just play. Make a style.

So there was a huge ejection and after five games, I would call

the. We were bottom of the league.

Yeah, we were bottom of the league.

True story. And I would called in and said

that's it's not working. Players don't like your methods.

They're not buying into this binding.

I said, well, what about the So what is what?

What is the problem? Am I fighting with people like

like no, no, no, it's just not binding your methods.

I said, well, then you should have kept your coach there, you

know, do you want to? Know how I operate?

You can. Where'd you come last year?

7th, 8th I said you want to come?

I don't want to come. 7th, 8th, I was with the teamers in the

top 4. So they said OK, OK, OK.

And you know, it was pretty like, oh, but we're just very

alarmed. I said, you think I'm not

alarmed? The results are not good.

I said, but let me do it. I'm going to do what I want to

do now. OK, boom.

We won the league that same year.

Do you think we would win the league?

What was it? Were you surprised?

I said to the owner, for on day one when I looked at the squad,

I said we're going to win the league here, We can win the

league here, we should win the league here, he said.

Oh, you're joking. We came seventh last year.

We'll see. We'll win the league here.

We just need a different approach.

I've watched your team, I know the players and and I've got one

or two out and one or two in and I've changed a few things here

and there. And this has always been just to

get clarity on this. Did you, did you want Teko to

leave? Because I know you guys went.

To Australia. There we go, There we go.

So, you know, I'll sit, I'll sit in the media and I'll listen to

Take a Talk. Yeah.

And he took the biggest load of nonsense because that's not the

truth. Would I want Africa's best

player to leave the club or You're joking?

Doesn't. That's why I'm then.

They go on. We didn't fit in the style of

the team. We went to Australia.

I got an airplane. I joined right the week, that

week we got an airplane. We got to Australia.

I don't know. I don't know anybody.

I sat there by myself. I've got Thika Medici, right?

I can see he's a bit. He's being tapped up by

everybody. That's fine.

We play a game in Australia, 2, three games.

He wins man in the match. I'm saying she's we're going to

build a team around this guy. No problem, no problem.

We get back train week or two, a week before the season starts.

A week my chairman phones me. Oh, I've had to do this deal.

I said what deal? No, no, we've had to sell Thika.

What you talking about you I I don't want to take you.

I don't want to take it to leave my best player now leave

Pirates, one team Pirates to put pressure on us blood.

This is the I said, oh, thanks new coach.

We got problems. He left and then the story comes

up. I didn't want him, his style of

play and then he comes out saying he didn't fit into the

methods that's but he let him. That was the fittest he's ever

been in his life. At pre season he did set him on

his path. There was a fittest that made

him work a little bit harder, put a little bit more into him

and yes, maybe we clashed on the training ground.

I pushed him a little bit and he didn't like it or whatever, but

but to say that I didn't want him was the most.

And you win the league three times in a row, which is?

Which he did say, by the way, I believe in super sport to win

trophies. But in the he never won anything

for the last five. He never won anything for the

next 10 years. So that was a good state of

that. Yeah.

Let me take a we talk about it today.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't have any bad things.

Not personal. The way it came out about I

didn't want him was all wrong. That's all wrong and.

Then that's the truth. You win the league for three

years in a row, which is unbelievable.

Doing badly in the cups. Yeah.

So they told me I'm I'm a, I'm a league coach, not a cup coach.

I was like, sorry, have you ever heard such nonsense?

And then you call some good players.

I mean, we can't talk about all of them, but just just just to

mention a few Dean Clit, when you look at everything is

achieved, I mean, what did you see?

Like what was it about them? Why you've achieved so much?

Dean Clit is like a bottle of tomato sauce.

You know when you go, when you take the mortar sauce and you

put on the chips? Yeah, yeah.

And. What are you going to do with

the tomato sauce? You've got to hit it behind.

Yeah. Then the tomato sauce comes out.

Yeah, so he's like a bottle of tomato sauce for me.

You've got to hit him and then push him and, and, and, and make

him a little bit angry and make him and then you're then the

thing comes out. So he was a guy that just needed

a push, just needed to be told sometimes the truth.

You know, players and and nowadays what I see with a lot

of young coaches who come into the game, they lie to the

players. There's a lot of faults acting

and hugging. And why do and people think

you're going to gain respect from a player?

You'll gain respect in the short term, but in the long term,

you're not going to gain respect because at the at the end of

their careers, they will say, geez, that guy, yeah, we maybe

didn't get on the beginning, but that guy is the guy that pushed

me to levels that I couldn't get to.

Yes, that I should have been at much early in my career.

And then you get coaches who hug and kiss players in front of the

cameras. It's all for show.

But behind the scenes, they're not being honest and truthful.

And if I argue, but I, you know, when I argue, but they argue

properly, that's when you and you get that.

But when I'm arguing, you like this.

And for the guy like Dane, you need to push them.

They need to tell them. And today we we're good friends

and but we fought and we fought with everybody.

But you're pushing people to boundaries that you, you know,

they can get to. There's people that you can't

push, which you leave. And I always say is all saying

in football, the day I stop talking to you is a day you must

get worried. Yeah, yeah.

Because the day I stop pushing you, you must get worried

because then I say, right, you're at.

But the day I keep pushing, keep pushing you, keep pushing you,

keep pushing you and keep on your back and you go, geez, this

guy, I mean the coach that I had when I was a player today, I can

see why, but I not hated him. That's not the word.

But I, I couldn't get out of this guy.

I but I wanted to show him all the time because he kept pushing

me and kept on my back until I said him why he was picking on

me. He said the day I stopped

picking on you, they they got a problem.

So Dane was one of those type of players and then eventually he

started getting 8910 goals a season, 1520 assists, free

kicks, corner kicks and his work rate better and and he and look

at the career, you know. And the difference between Dane

Clayton Massim Hussaini Zongo because Zongo.

Much mobility. The best player I've ever seen

is one of the best is Zongo. He's unbelievable footballer but

he never had what Dane had and you couldn't push Zongo.

The more you pushed him, the more he just so Zongo.

I think Zongo search and says to himself did he he'll say did he

have a good career? He's he's got, if he's honest,

he said no. And out of that group, the

Ronmans, Kermit, the Rasmus Zongo, Kamehelo Mukadji, he was

the best. He was the best.

He was the best. And he should have played like

he went to Finoid and they loved him, but he was never going to.

He's never going to be a football that was going to be

restricted. Not restricted.

That's not the word. But put in a structure and say

when he played for us, when he first came in, when Dane was

injured once or twice, I mean, we played against Kaiser Chiefs.

I mean, Jimmy Dao, Jimmy Dao is still looking for him.

He went past him I don't know how many times, you know, and

put the ball across it. But then after 5 minutes, he

didn't want to stay on the left wing.

He wanted to play in the middle. So Zongo, we need to get the

ball out there. What are you doing here now?

I want to get on the ball. We will get the ball to you,

don't you? So, and then eventually

obviously mean, you know, we're going to clash and we say right,

we move him on. And, and I feel sorry for Zongo

because he's a nice guy. I like Zongo there.

You know, if you sit with him longer, you'll laugh.

And he's got a great personality.

He's a great personality. And but he's certainly somebody

that way underachieved, you know, and that's just me.

If he says he achieved and you know, that's fine.

If he feels he's done enough, well, that's fine.

We've also interviewed Bibo last week.

Bibo, there's another one. And he says, because you see in

that group that you just mentioned.

He was also one of them in that group.

Yes, but he was never considered the best.

Well, they played him wrong. I thought in the juniors they

played him as a #10A10. I put him back in the midfield

as a six or a 18, whatever you want to call them, in a double

midfield. And his career.

We sold Lebo Kokana, right? It was very successful for

Paula. It was a fantastic sign from

Black Leopards and people forget about how we signed him, what we

did with him and look at his career now you know, and and

then he moved on for a little bit.

We moved him on for good money to Salt.

Then they said to me, what are you going to do?

I said, well, I've got this guy, the juniors were playing, I'll

go with him because I think he's good enough, but I'm going to

move him back and we won the league again with him and Bieber

was fantastic. Go to shut to Pirates.

Money, yes, better career, yes, bigger club, yes, but I don't

think he was ever a Pirates type of player.

He was a super sport player. You would have a much better

career than we would have handled him better.

And you know what happened to his career.

So but financially wise, obviously at that period he was

became a superstar and you know, and yeah, a very good player and

a nice boy too. I was we were all shocked and

surprised what happened, you know, but you can get you know,

when you're in that big bubble, you get swallowed up if you're

not. That's why you need managers

like me, you know, Because I'll handle it better, you know what

I'm saying? There is just a number you know.

Because how, how do you handle that?

Because that's such a common theme, see, with our young

players, you know, they sign especially for the big teams,

all the money. And Pagamani Matami is another

example. Pagamani I mean.

How can we? How do you think we can try to

help these boys a bit better? Well, there's some you can help.

There's some you can't help. You know, when I played

football, it was me, it was the player and the coach.

Now you play football, that's the player, that's the agent,

that's the owner, the CEO, the friends and then the coach

because they think coaches will get fired.

They'll just. But all my time as a player,

when I was young, I invested in my that's my man.

What he says goes and if he says don't go out or do this, we'll

yes, I was naughty. We were all naughty, but within

reason. And I don't think coaches get

enough grip on the team, especially at the bigger clubs.

You're not in control of your, your own destiny because you

these guys are, they're getting pulled in the office by football

directors. They're getting pulled in the

office without the coach hearing what's been said.

They they're getting the CE OS pulling them in the office

without the coach. You're getting CEOs, owners of

football clubs phoning players directly without the coach

knowing the coach should be in charge of all those things.

And I thought, and that'll let the days of the manager like the

Alex Fergusons of the world until you have that type of

thing again, You you're going to have this, you're going to have

more of this. Because when you coach one of

the big clubs in South Africa, you were just there.

Believe you me. When the coach, when they win

the league at the end of the season, was the team the coach.

Oh, yeah, well done. The coach should be the the big,

the coach should be the biggest focus.

If I said to you of a football club anywhere in the world,

who's the owner? You, I don't know who's the

coach? You know the coach.

He said every year, you know the owner, but you don't know the

coach. So we got it the wrong way

around you. And I'm not saying the coach

would be in charge of the of these boys of the how they live,

where they live or what they do. And yes, you try and get

involved, but they're getting pooled all around and the and,

and the, and the owners of phoning players.

So how's the coach, other coaches this, the coaches that

without the coach know you can't have that.

You can just disrespect this. And then you obviously you're on

a time, you're on a time bomb, you know, so and that's why you

get the problems a lot with these players.

And then obviously you get the agents, the agent not going to

tell them the truth. Agent very really tell him the

truth. So the player is not playing.

Oh, the coach doesn't like me. Yeah.

You see then that the agent goes to the CEO.

I want to move him. Well, do you know that he how he

trained on Monday, how he trained Tuesday, blah, blah,

blah. What's he doing?

Have you spoken to the coach? Why?

How? You know what I'm saying?

You know, so I think that's why you get a lot of problems with

players off the field in South Africa.

And then? You move to.

To Bidvis vets. Why?

Why the move? I'm not always interested.

The bottom line is we were selling players and we're not

going to win you. Yeah, let's be honest.

They said, well, we start selling.

So that team at, when we won the league three times in a row, I

said, and I say it today, if we'd have kept those players

together, we would have won the league 10 years in a row.

Of course we had Clayton, the Palombias, Anthony Lafours,

Morgan Goulds, I'm just giving you all his name.

Dennis or younger. He won 12.

Now stay at Super Sport, he wins 12.

Do you want Morgani's this one, that one, Thomas, they're all

left. So now we keep rebuilding.

And yet they say, oh, we, we got the the, the mentality in the

club and we got the philosophy, but you're losing the quality

and then it takes times and sometimes some way that's going

to hit you. So after the third year, we won

the league, we went like that. We just made the top eight.

OK. Then we came again, same thing

happened. If it's we saw sort of selling,

moving players out, you hit the, you're going to hit the you know

what I'm saying? And then you think you're

bringing someone in. Oh, we've strengthened the team,

but don't break our team. Don't break down teams too

quickly, too early. And that's what happened.

And I'll and Witzke and obviously the CEO left and he

said to me, listen, we got this project at Witz.

They want to win the league. They haven't won in 100 years.

You want to come is. That just here.

Yeah, you should. We're going to be going to

invest in the team, I said. OK, now you're talking my

language, you know, let's get a few players.

Not that we'll do it to the extent of Chiefs, Pirates and

Sundance. We'll never invest that heavily

in terms of spending and buying, but we will invest and with a

clever knowledge and a tactical approach to win football

matches, you know? But is it, is it true that Vince

was investing in terms of they were able to match at least

three agents? Salaries and we were, we worked

in a free agent market. The people.

I heard one coach say I won't mention his name.

He had a go at me in the media because I said well, you know,

you know, they got all the players and he said Oh well,

they spend money at Vince. We had free agents and I'll go

through all of them. You know, there's so many of

them we had got. The only one we bought was

Boutique Makanazi, who cost us a We paid over the top, but we won

the league and we won cups and we got in finals and we and he

was a great investment. Tyson let's wire was a captain

the Bangwanari. I must go through the old team.

They're all free. Yeah, freeze.

So we did well there. You know what I'm?

Saying, but you're able to compete like salary wise and

then. Good.

So the salary wise we competed better, OK, that's where the the

catch was. But we never went like the clubs

today. They go buy somebody for 5

million or 10 million or 8 million or or now they buy for

50 million. She's slow.

But you had just a Ferreira there.

That's what that's what you need.

How important is it to have someone like that in a well?

That's what I found it which a breach any football club.

The most important thing is not to manage down is to manage up

and if you can manage that guy or that guy can manage you and

you have a relationship where you know used used to pick up

the phone. I mean I'm lied every 3-4 times

a day to me. So in the training when we

finished the phone would go how was training or he was at

training watching the training and 99% of the time he watched

the training with Jonathan Schloss.

They watched, so they you're off how many people?

How many CE OS or Chairman's watch training every day?

Yeah, yeah. Very, very.

Yeah. So my CEO is watching training.

So we and we had a meeting off the field.

We walk off the field, we talking about this or that.

So it's a daily discussion about the team where some days you

chairman's you see you get them on a Friday.

Oh, what's the lineup or the lineup?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't play that guys.

What where were you Monday, Tuesday.

When did the runner, you know? So that's relationship we had

and he would tell me, listen, we need to do this, we could have

to do this, what about this? What about that?

And then we would discuss. And so you need that as a coach

who motivates the motivator, who motivates the motivator.

So if you're the boss of a company, who motivates you?

Who do you talk to to bounce things off?

Because when you're winning is very easy in life, when you

things are going, when things are bad, that's when you need

that person to say maybe it's not as bad them looking at they

look from art in I'm in looking at on my edge in the clouds

here. When you lose it, maybe they say

it's not so bad, you know, and maybe you've been over or you

know, you're not being realistic, you know?

And tell us about. He was the best for me.

Yeah, he was. He's the best.

He's a great. It's an absolute disgrace in

this country that a guy like him is not in football because he

could take an average club and turn it into a very good club in

the matter of season. Yeah, it just has two windows or

something, you know? And tell us about you won the

league firstly, but you also there's one game that a lot of

people remember when you beat Sundowns 3 nil.

Was it the empty? Was it MTNH final?

Final They played the Champions League final the next week.

And you beat them three nil. What really stood out there was

there was a moment that still trends today when your players

were, you know, keeping the ball.

At the end, show ball, yeah, they say show, but it wasn't

show, but it was keeping the ball because we should have

scored at the end of those passing sequences.

We should have scored twice. That was the so we not got the

vets. We came third, third, second and

then first. So people say, you know, both

players, we were building a team.

We had problems at fullback and that season we got in Klanty and

we got in Nazir Ali. I'm just giving you like I was

thinking and then we got this one.

So that night the owner Brian Joffe was there, but this they

were all there. I said to them, how much money

you got? They got millions.

I said take, take all your money, go to the latest bookie

and back us to win this league. They said, are you joking?

I said you've come third, third, second.

I said this is a year. Why?

Because our team is strong enough.

I looked at the bench that night.

When you look on your bench and you go, wow, these guys should

be starting in this team, then you know your team is strong.

When you look at your bench, you go, jeez, I can't make a change.

Then you've got a problem. You know what I'm saying?

You look at the bench, you go, no, I'm not making a change.

We leave these ones on. You know your bench is strong.

You know your team is strong, your squad is strong.

And that was evidence and we started and, and I would say it

today and people can say what they like.

Vets was the only club that would have challenged Sundowns

today because we did. We were the last team to win the

league. Yes, yes.

And we were, they would never want it eight years in a row,

believe you me, because we would have come, we would have been in

there definitely challenging. They feared coming to Moorpark.

They they didn't like it. There was only one game a year

of the league. But we, we and Pitzer will tell

you today that we we pushed them all the way, you know, in all

those league titles. And then they won.

And we came the year that we came second, we should have won

the year we came third, we should have won it.

And they won it. And then we came, you know.

Yeah. So it's with, it's going, we

only weakened South African football.

We weakened South African football because of the club.

It's like super sport. They're going.

Were you weakening the football by bringing in, I mean, Wits was

and six months later it was Maruma Galanza, relegated of

clubs 100 years old, just won the league.

Yeah, that's crazy. Crazy.

And, and tell us about that when when the club was sold, firstly,

did you see it coming or? We with a, with a change of

this, the chairman of Wits and the CE OS and there was a big

change. Brian Joffe left and there was a

big change. You've got a feeling that they

don't have football at all. With interest.

Football wasn't their game. Horse racing, rugby, $1,000,000,

golf, whatever. That was the and football with

Brian Joffe's little baby because he loved football.

He used to come Friday night. There was the only guy who was

in that level who doesn't come with bodyguards.

Why do these big rich people come with bodyguards?

Why tell me why businessmen always got bodyguards?

Are they up to no good? He used to come here with his

child with a pack of the chips in the stand.

Watch your football. You know, he's a multi

billionaire. He's got a business of and he

used to come in the changing rooms and you'd phone me and go

for coffee and just chat about the team and you're going like

you need people like this in the game because they've got

football at heart. And he used to fight against

Ivan caused it to get because we didn't want to play Chief.

We had to play Chiefs in the biggest state.

Now he wants to play Mopar in the small stadium.

Lawyers. It was lucky he had passion for

his team. Once he left, he could see.

It's not the same. And then obviously they pulled

the plug on us, right, Which was, you know, suddenly we lost

an Academy, you lost players, people are staffed, people have

been here 30 odd years and that's lost their jobs.

And it was a real sad time. Real sad time.

I mean once that. Was in COVID as well.

COVID times, yeah, and then has the chiefs now.

I mean, everyone has always waited for you to, you know, to

go to the big three it. Was it was a dream.

It was a dream job. So when I was a play in the 80s,

I mean the glamour boys, you know, when they come in the perm

D and they black like me and you know, that was the and they got

the best suits and they got that.

They got that look, you know, and they you know, all the woman

walking in the state. There were the buzz, the glamour

boys. They were.

You always thought she was if I could ever go there, you know,

as as a player or a coach, you know, those days.

And then when you get a chance to go and it's just the timing

is just not right, you know? So you think that was you think

if you had wanted to choose a different time?

Well, I would have stayed the Vitz, wasn't it?

I was at Vitz. You would have stayed.

I was at Vitz, we weren't going anywhere so we sat in the hotel

we were in, locked seven weeks, remember, locked up in.

We were in the Rose Bank Hotel and the club's been sold.

We got told you lost your jobs, so I pulled all the players in.

I said right, whoever doesn't want to play, yeah, leave.

We've got eight games or seven games left.

You can leave if you do want to play.

Stay and now we all stay, OK, right.

You know, you got the job in a week, in seven weeks time or six

weeks time. Yeah, we know in that period the

players have been sold. Tyson Lesoya, Pirates.

Otto comes to me, he says I've got 2 offers from Sundowns

almost. I do.

I said Sundowns doesn't suit you.

What do you mean, coach? I said they don't play a

football like you're going to play.

They're not that type of team and you're going to struggle.

The you know. Is that a great career at

Pirates? Tabangwanari, Ben Motsuari,

Vincent Pooley? I'm just giving all the names

now. They're all everybody's going.

I said something, where the hell am I going?

What am I doing? I've got no job and, and all my

staff. And I'm thinking she's like, I

feel bad, you know, because they it's every man for himself, you

know, that's that sort of gets to yeah.

And they play. I mean, Chiefs in the bubble.

They were, they lost the league, remember?

They were like they were like they they struggle, they

chooses. So I thought and I looked at the

team not thinking that you're going to go to Kaiser Chiefs.

You know I mean, Ernesty, why they ever got rid of Ernest, I

got no idea. He he lost the league by 1520

minutes came second. They were they they were doing

well anyway, we leave the hotel every day, lose the league.

We've got a job. I'm thinking, OK, here we go

period of you know, and it was about two weeks later I got a

phone call. Listen, would you be interested

in the job? I said you're but, but I said,

what do you mean? But I said that team needs a

because I could see it in the bubble.

They were, we played, we played them twice in the bubble and you

could see they were just, it was a free fall.

You know, they were legs and and yeah, don't worry, we'll change

the team. The team needs an overall.

I said fine then. I mean, but are you going to be

going to stick to that? You know, 'cause now I'm saying

to you, you can get a few witch players.

Clanty, they signed the left back this, but now you couldn't

play them. But I said sign them and loan

them. Do you understand?

Remember the FIFA band? Yes, yes.

So we couldn't sign any players, see.

Players at that time, yeah. Anyway, we go to the start the

first game we can see. I can see you.

I mean, we play Sundown's first games.

Three. No, we play Pirates 3.

No, we in the Derby, we were just you could see I'm like, but

have a meeting. No, no, don't worry, we keep

going. I'll play stop playing all the

youngsters. I'll stop playing all those

kids. I think let's pull the team here

around these kids, the goal ball machiney lucky this one, that

one. But they they're not good

enough. They're not ready.

They're not good enough, but they're not ready for this

environment. But we play in them because I'm

thinking let's pull the team here.

But anyway, we go in the Champions League for the first

time we go yeah, and Champions League is a different style of

football. It's slower.

It's, you know, it's, it's horrible football to watch

anyway, but we go, we go, we go. We get in the group, we get in

the group, we get out the group. First time chiefs ever out of

the group in their history. We get out of a group, we go, we

get we go quarterfinals, we play Aurora, we win.

We play Simba now we play Simba. Simba, the one that's in the

final. We get to the qualify, qualify,

we play Simba. We hammer them for and all here

we go there we lose Fino. So there's a bit of a Barney.

That's a sun Saturday, come back Sunday.

We've got to go to Black Leopards on the Wednesday.

We've got hammered. They fired me on the Thursday.

I said guys we're in the semi final, the Champions League semi

final. You don't want me, no problem,

let me stay till the end of let me finish the campaign. 2 weeks,

3 weeks not going now at they got to the final.

The rest is history. So what was said behind closed

doors, what was said in the you know, it was a little bit, you

know, but great club, great. It got so much potential.

You saw with them when the Ned back down.

I mean the whole. Mood of the whole country just.

Durban looking to stand still. Everybody was celebrating, you

know, and you, you've read the comments in the media, Coach,

you've got to give me players, You've got to give me players.

Exactly what I said four years ago.

A club like that has to keep getting the best talent, you

know what I'm saying? And obviously you, you know,

it's very difficult with the Sundowns.

They're not going to get to the place because they've obviously

got a different wage level and a different scale, which Chiefs

won't go that level. But then you've got to look at

your foreign players and I say club like Chiefs need to get the

best 5 foreign players. And that's the secret of all

these big clubs. Your five foreign players needs

to be of better quality, you know what I'm saying?

You need to bring your best and that's the difference between.

And you see, there are Sundowns. Now they are bringing 5460

million random players. Yeah, OK mate.

Are they the best? I don't know.

I think you get better. Yeah, my opinion.

That's just my opinion for the money you spend.

I don't. I don't know what they're

spending. But you know, you hear the talk.

On the media reports. Yeah, yeah, They're spending

loads and loads of millions of buying foreign players and

they've gone to South South American, which is always

difficult because of the language, the culture, you know,

But you need to if you're not going to compete with them in

the local market. So the players worth 5 million

and Sundance pay 10 million, which they'll do, or 12 million

for the 5 million player, which she's only pay 5.

She's might pay good wages, but they won't pay the 12.

Million to get? But the club say well I'll get

let me get 12, they've only given me 5.

And the player the money will be most will be more Sundance

they're going to go to, they're going to go.

So they're not going to get the best local ones because these

clubs will have, Sundance will have bid them and.

Because just two questions to close the Chiefs chapter.

Do you think if you were to coach private Chiefs in

different times without a ban with a obviously not like

Sundance, but this is an opportunity to sign players, you

think 1 you would at least push Sundance because right now it's,

you know, they've got no competition.

And two on the again, on this issue of style and how teams

should play, Do you think there would there would be any problem

for you to coach Chiefs and for people to you?

Know you think, do you think the people worried about how Chiefs

played in the final two weeks ago?

You think people worried about? Could people tell you how the

Chiefs played? No, people.

What do they? What do they remember?

That they were. So when the chairman sits down

with me and says to me, So what style are you going to play?

I said I'm a winner, I want to win.

What does that mean, coach? I don't know.

We want to win. So do people today, two weeks

later of the Net Bank final, saying Chiefs played badly.

But they won't. They won't.

Remember, they don't remember how do do.

People talk about Spurs last night or the night before

against Man United, how Spurs played, what did happen.

Do they do they do they talk about where they finished in the

league? No, they won.

So people have got the Sundowns really, they're winning.

But are you really the way they play?

And and when a chairman or an oner says to you we don't like

your style of play, do we win? Do we win?

That's the most important thing. And people forget that.

You know, Springbok rugby, yeah, we're winning.

We won two World Cups, three World Cups.

Do we how we played. People don't care.

People do care, yes, while you're there and you're winning,

you could start playing with a little bit more flair, a little

bit more presents, a little bit more this or that.

You can add the bit, but you need to win.

And people don't remember Chiefs of average shocking season in

the league, but they won the lead Bank Cup and people forget

that. And you can't forget that they

won a cup, you know, Magessie. Yeah.

Yeah, how they play football. G was they won a cup.

Yeah, Yeah, they beat Sundowns. How they played, they won.

So going back to your question, there was a guy called Jeff

Butler. And the the the legendary Chiefs

coach. Yeah.

Legendary chief coach. Yeah.

Did they play good football? I don't think so.

Yeah, but they won a trophy. Trophy.

Joe Freakleton, 84. I was there.

They won five or six trophies that season.

Did they play? Yeah.

When there were 2-3 laps. Now it comes.

Then it comes. Things join Bexter as well.

They got criticized for the style of the footballs

helicopter. What I hear there's helicopter.

Helicopter. But they're winning trophies.

Yeah. Do you understand what I'm

saying? So do I want to play like, yes,

course you want to see a nice way of playing football?

Man City this year, everybody goes on about Man City style of

football. What did they win this year?

Nothing. Nothing.

Yeah. So people, it should be about

winning. And if you can win with a bit of

style, Yes. If you can win with a bit of

excitement, yes, but it's got to be about winning and that's the

philosophy of any top level sport.

Yeah, and then and then finally coach super sport.

When you come back the second time, what is the difference

between the Super sport that you found now and the Super sport

you? Coached well.

The budget. The budget, yeah.

Cut the budget, the quality. Not in saying that I came back

this two years ago and it's the first time they come in the top

four since I left. Have they won trophy since I

left? Yes, they won Ned Banks and but

the first time they've been back in the top 4, which is we came

third. We sold a few players.

Yeah, You know, must I go through that?

We sold the game, you know, and then you're trying to replace

and you're trying to build. Last year Campbell went, you

know, to Pillar, Maseko, TT, Patrick Masai, Webber.

Must I go through all of them? You know what I mean?

So you're losing and then you put in younger ones in take a

little bit of time, then you start moving, you know, so

moving home grounds, we look, you know, we were unbeaten at

Lucas Molipa and then you go up to Poloquines.

And so there's all these little factors that sound like excuses.

No, but these are factors that are are facts, you know what I'm

saying? And it's it's, it's a fantastic

club, but it's either club that needs a little bit more where

we're going again, you know what I'm saying?

And for them to let you go when they did, Did you foresee it?

And you know. Well, obviously, you know, but

then it goes back to, you know, if like I just said about people

talk about style of play, they talk about the way you play

this, that what is it about? It's about winning now, isn't

it? You know, so it goes back to

what I said earlier. If you're not winning, you're

going to go. Something's going to happen

here. And, and at the end of the day,

the coach goes because here's the problem, you know what I

mean? So yeah.

And how sad would it be for a teammate that to get really get?

Him. No, that won't get really get

him, you think? They'll win the playoff or they

won't make it to the. Well, I don't think it'd be in

the playoffs. I mean, it's just my, you know,

I, I, I, it's there's a lot of there's a lot of factors, but

you know, it's, it's that was in football, you know, you walk

away my result. I don't think you know what we

did and how we allowed the process to go that you can

debate for for days. We can talk about it for days.

Why, how, what results win, loss.

That's what people see. They're not going to care about

how many young players you sold, how the other way you played,

how many chances you missed, how you dominated the games.

People don't care. They see.

And I'll go back to all the young coaches coming to the game

is the most important thing in football.

The two PS played and points, all the stuff in between.

It's like I always say to you, a chairman will phone you on a

Friday. How's the team?

And then you're your coach now is trained.

Hey, the boys are looking sharp. They buzz in the energy come

Saturday loose. Then the chamber finds.

So what was? So when the chairman finds you

on a Friday, he's telling the chairman now the team is bad,

the mood is bad, players are trained badly and then you win

Saturday. But you told me the team was

bad. Do you understand what I'm going

to say? So it's all about the results

people don't see. If you're not involved and

ingrained into a football team and you're there every day and

you feel in the dressing room, smell in the dressing room,

you're going to feel the dressing room.

Because in the dressing room is where things happen, get said

what how people train and what is going on you.

And you look from a distance and you come in on a Saturday and

you watch it. But why?

Why is it like this? I'm paying this guy.

Look at the money I'm paying him, but he's missing a goal or

you know. We've basically covered here,

not in that much detail, but we've covered basically a whole

coaching career very quickly. So if we just have, I don't know

how much time we have, just very quickly, if we can just discuss

just some of the current affairs.

Just in our under 20s, we won the F Con.

You've introduced a lot of young players before and when you look

at this crop, I don't know how much time you had to look at

the. Do you think it's a group that

can hopefully graduate and, you know, go to Bufana and.

You'll generally find the best, the best solution is you take

this group and they go through together 23's Olympics and they

go to the first team never happened because 80% of them

will fall off the bus. Yeah, Yeah.

For whatever reason, they get snapped up.

Yeah. They.

Their careers, yeah. Yeah.

Because of external things off the field.

So 80% of the squad will go missing more than more than

that. I don't want that to happen, but

it's going to happen. And then you'll find late

developers come from somewhere and and playing the Bufana team

or the national team. Yeah.

Can you keep the group together? You would love to.

I mean, I just, you know, there's a lot of players,

there's certain elements of the team that I still think we don't

have, you know what I mean? Proper number nines, you know,

those type of thing, yes, you know, and as you go up the

levels, you're going to get exposed more with a little bit

more, you know, physicality in certain areas and that type of

thing. So, yeah, they've done

fantastically well, you know, and they've played against some

bigger, stronger boys and, and, and there was a they looked like

there was huge togetherness there, you know, And that that's

something that that can that can take you to areas where when

they go to the World Cup and now we're talking to maybe a

different level, you know, you're going to play against

different. But for for the experience, what

we need to do is we need to get more players at the country.

Yes. Now until we do that again, we

cannot become really, I don't think a strong international

force. And the more we get at playing

at at other leagues, the better will we become, I think, and the

better the things we can bring back here as well, you know.

So that doesn't mean a local league doesn't fit it or make

it. But I do think we there's a lot

of players in South Africa and the problem is they're not going

to be able to move because clubs are keeping them.

They're not allowing it where the club's going to say that we

want 50 million, they're going to offer 40, they're going to

say no. And when you offer fifty, they

want 60. It's just I'm just giving it to

you that it's simplified before maybe.

And I think opportunities should be given a lot to these players

to move if they can move. How far do you think a sundry

Campbell can go? Sundry Campbell has got a mind

better than a 30 year old experienced defense

professional. He's got a mindset of already,

and I just hope that, and I don't think it will happen that

this it's he's going to have a little bit of a tip because

it's, you know, the the lights is going to start shining.

But he's got the mentality of to to want to improve, to want to

win. He enjoys training.

He's a boy that I used to, you know, when you come to training

as a coach, every day, there's certain players you go, oh,

jeez, this is like pulling teeth here, this guy.

But he's a guy that excites you at training because he's he

wants to win in the five of sides.

He wants to win. He wants to shoot, he wants to

score or he wants to, you know, Benny was like that at 17.

Yeah, it was a big thing about Benny, the desire to want to win

in training. And Sandra Campbell's got that

and he's at the right place, right club.

Did he go too early for me? Oh yes.

I think he'd have waited another year.

But what they're doing with him now, they're grounding him by

not letting him go to the under 20s.

And then this thing now it's a short term thing.

And obviously it's affecting him now because, oh, I should have

been there. But short term, let's forget

short term. Let's look at the picture down

the road. And right now the bigger picture

is for him to stay where he is and, and getting that first team

and believing me, that big move will come too.

A Bundesliga, maybe English Premier League or something, you

know, that's where, that's where the game is, you know?

And finally, coach Sundowns play the Champions League final and

firstly, I mean you as a coach, you've coached at the highest

level. You know what difficult it is to

go into Africa? How impressive is it?

I mean the fact that they're going to semi finals now every

year and. OK, so there's a Sundowns way of

doing things and then there's a a bit sort of super sport way of

doing things, yes. So Sundowns will go three days

before with 40 people, Super Sport will go day before with 18

people. So preparation is is I do think

the league, the PSL help the team is much more now in the

Champions League putting games off.

Yes, yes, changing fixtures. I'll give example when I was at

Vitz, we play Chipper in East London on the Tuesday night and

we play now luckily on Saturday night in Egypt.

OK, they're in East London Wednesday, get in the plane

right. That was Wednesday night was

Wednesday, get back here Thursday we play now luckily on

Saturday night in Egypt, go home, get the change of stuff,

fly Thursday night. We just came right there Friday

morning, don't even train play Saturday night, unlucky 70,000

people. It was the other club.

They there will be a Wednesday fixture.

It would be and we lose 1 nil or something, they come back, we

beat them. Yeah.

So the preparation is a big thing.

I think clubs can afford to, you know, have a little bit more

scope with numbers, a little bit more scope with medical staff,

all these type of things. And and they do things

differently and better. And their focus is certainly

that in that that that area. And obviously they can sign

extra players which will give them a little bit for the long

run where we say we lose our six or seven or out of the out of

the 11, we lose one or two out of our best six or seven.

We got a problem, you know. And you see our sentences

dominating the league in eight years in a row.

Do you think the problem is that Sun Oz is just spending too

much? Or do you think the problem is

that everyone else is going backwards?

No, I think, I think, I think the gap has got bigger with the

haves and the have nots. So there's 3 or 4 clubs we can,

we can, who can pay decently. And the other ones are really

gained from hand to mouth unless, but do people invest,

want to invest in his club? But because they feel there's,

they're not getting the fair shake from the club, they're not

getting, you know, where's the money going, blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah. I mean, all the owners

trustworthy enough to, to put the money to give them 10

million on the front of the jersey.

I don't know, you know what I'm saying.

So these are the questions that get asked in the corporate law.

And then I hear statements come out one chamber saying they're

not going to sponsor certain clubs because of certain things.

And I'll go like, maybe you should look at yourself, You

know what I'm saying? You know, before, because what,

what you do off the field is certainly maybe getting out

there. But so there's a lot of, there's

a lot of things. Nobody can compete at Sundance,

not even Chiefs of Pirates with the with the, with the transfer

fees of buying of players. And I don't think Chiefs of

Pirates want to go there. They can still get away with it,

having good teams because they've got the support base,

they've got the numbers, you know, and they could, you must

always remember A-Team like Vitzel Superport.

To win the league you need an extra 10 points because Chiefs

and Pirates get an extra 10 points by having a crowd when

they go to Cape Town. We go to Cape Town, there's one

man and a dog there. They go to Cape Town, there's

23rd. They get more people away from

home than do stadium. So that gives them support,

gives them motivation, it gives them intimidation, it gives them

all those type of things. You know what I'm saying?

It's very difficult for clubs to lesser clubs to win leagues.

Then that's why you're going to be so much better, you know, and

the self mode of when the Sundowns super sport of its play

a golden arrows in these are 150 people.

You got to you got to have that motivation as a player to say

hey, and that's why players want to move on to go and get the

Derby at 90 thousands and and those type of things.

So it's very difficult for these smaller clubs to challenge.

You know, I think the gap is just getting bigger and bigger

and wider now, you know? And how do you see the the final

playing out? This part of this team is a good

team. Very good.

You know, they've got a guy that can score goals for for free for

fun. I think they've got AI think

they've got a good defensive structure.

Yes, they'll be a little bit counter techie and sit off and

and Sundowns don't play maybe at the speed that you know, it

should be a little bit quicker the way they play.

They play in these daytime games where they feel free and it

works for them. I I don't if they haven't got a

little bit of a lead going there, I think it's going to be

but I think Sunday's a better away.

Yeah, yeah, because the other teams will come out a little bit

more, you know, they'll come onto you a little bit more space

will be there a little bit more, but I think they need a bit of a

lead to go away when they go in the second leg, you know.

But this game, if it was unlucky, I would say because

they're not unlucky about the same as the force that they used

to be. But this team is a little bit

different. They, they got a little bit more

determination in him. You know, they, they, I mean the

coaches, he's really, you can see he's up for it.

And and I think it's a club that's wanting to achieve.

We're likely have achieved so much.

Sometimes you get that, you know, you'll be careful.

Winning is good, but winning breeds, you know, you've got to

keep winning and you've got to keep that motivation.

It's like Sundowns now. There's a group of players

there. That time is they're going to

have to move them out through because you'll get so bored of

winning. And I don't say you know in a in

a bad way, but winning is good, but it's also bad in a way

because you need to keep that the mentality.

And by keeping either the coach has got to go.

Well, the players have got to go.

If you're keeping the coach, players must go.

But if you, you know the coach can go bring a new motivation in

a new way of doing things because the players, you're

going to have to change when you're winning, you need to

change. And as a coach, how do you

manage these two legged ties because you want to get a big

advantage at home but at the same time.

They still got the way goals count then.

Yeah, yeah, we'll still. Count in Africa, in Europe it.

Doesn't find that balance. Well, in Africa doesn't count

anymore. It still counts.

It still counts. Yeah, it's in the, it's in

Europe. Where?

Oh. Yeah, sorry, sorry.

Still counts here. Yeah, by goal means 2, you know,

and this team could score. They can score that's.

That this team could score. That's why I say they need a bit

of a lead and they need a A1 nil or two nil.

No goals against leading, you know, So I don't know.

I mean, listen, he looks a little bit.

They look a little bit. What's the word?

Not lakish. They look a little bit at their

time again, you know what I'm saying?

Sunday. And to be fair, it's if they

it's hard to say this, but it'll be a bit of under achievement

this season, you know, if they don't win this.

Yeah. They just won the league.

You know, they lost a bloody Calcom Cup, they lost the top

eight cup and the Nedbank, you know.

So the league is forgiven always, you know.

So I don't mean it like that. But I'm what I'm trying to say

is they will be bail of a disappointed just winning the

the league. OK, they've got to the final,

which is the the first priority. They should be in the final,

minimum semi final, but they should be in the final most

years now where the club has gone and not to win it.

That's going to be a poof. Yeah, there'll be a certain a

lot of introspection, a lot of head scratching if they don't

win this thing, you know, because of the investment in it.

And finally, coach you, you've now joined you joined the

unemployed case. This is not for me.

Do you, do you still have, you know you still want to go back?

Like right now I should be on the gross coaching, you know, I

should be an athlete. It's driving me crazy this I

can't do this. I've been off my head.

I can walk so much on the beach. I can play so much golf.

I can ride my bicycle so much. I can go for walk so much and

read books and coffee shops and it's but I can't do this.

I'm not. I'm nowhere near at that stage.

But at this stage in your, in your career, in your life, what

kind of a project are you looking for?

Well, you want a project where you want a realistic club?

Yeah, realistic club to what you've got, not unrealistic

where you had a club where we must win the league.

Are you joking? You want to be at a place where

you're going to be given a little bit of leeway to

realistic. I need that player.

Oh, it costs 50 million, what we call we can only spend two.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to give you an

example. Yes, yes.

So you need to be realistic. You need to have a.

Situation where we're going to, we have a good youth structure.

You need to be in a situation where we have a good facility to

train, you need to have a good home facility and all these type

of things. And you and you have a good

interaction with the person that owns the club or the chairman or

whatever it is. So that's what you would like to

do? Yeah.

Do you get that? That's the real world.

Every club has hiccups and bumps along, you know, these bumps and

how do you, how you gonna, how you gonna go through the bumps

together? You know, it's knee jerk.

Are you at OK? Well, I mean, and there's too

much of that these days, yeah. There's too much chopping and

changing and and you know, I look at Stella Moss, you look at

them now, they've got a coach for 8-9 years now and they're

really competitive now, you know, so that's what you want.

It's been a gradual year and they've had bumps.

They should, they were right at the bottom two years ago.

They were at the bottom of the league and they got reigners

from us and they scored ten goals in the second round and

they came, you know, and they've been really competitive.

When they hit another tip again, the chairman will know they've

been there with this coach. They can come out of this tip

again. And that's, that's what you

need, you know, and you'll find the football will be better on

the whole in the league. But when you're chopping and

changing, you're not gonna get that.

You're not gonna get that good. Thank you so much for giving us

the time and that we really wish.

You all the best. Hopefully you'll be back in a

job soon. And yeah, let's see how it goes.

OK. Thank you.

Thank you.

South African Football Through The Eyes OF Coach Gavin Hunt

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