Deep Dive Of South African Football Through The Eyes OF Coach Gavin Hunt

0:00 Welcome to the deep dive. OK, today we're really jumping into something special, a world just full of passion. South African football. We've got insights here from someone who's, well, he's properly lived it decades in the game. Yeah, first as a player, then as a coach who's pretty much seen it all, hasn't he? From like the grassroots level right up to winning the big trophies. Absolutely. So what we're doing here, our mission is to dig through all that experience and pull out the really key stuff.

0:30 You know, the big lessons, the surprising stories. The things that really tell you what makes South African football tick based on his journey. Exactly. We want to understand it better through his eyes. And there's a lot to cover. Playing days, the the shift into coaching, building teams. Navigating the club scene and player development. The whole 9 yards. It's a proper insider's perspective. Some sharp opinions in here too, which is always good. OK, let's dive in. Where better to start on the pitch?

0:56 His playing days. He was at Hellenic right from 81 to 94. That's the one came up through amateur clubs apparently got scouted from like inter school games. Which says something about how talent spotting worked back then, doesn't it? Totally different era. He really paints a picture of the 80s being you know, genuinely semi pro, meaning you had your day job. He mentions being a Rep. Driving around football was strictly evenings. You trained after work. You got paid, but it wasn't your not. At all.

1:26 And that, he says, just flipped completely with the PSL FARA late 90s. Suddenly it's full time pro. Yeah, full time and the salaries, crucially took a big jump. More money, sure, but a totally different lifestyle for the players. And that leads him to a really interesting point, doesn't it, about player quality then versus now? It does. His take is that the older guys, maybe they had more like game intelligence. And why is that? Simple reason, they just played so much more football. He talked about potentially playing 20 games a month.

1:58 School, club, all combined 20 games a month. Wow, compared to now? Compared to now, where he reckons some juniors might only play 20 games in a whole year. That's a massive difference in just time on the ball in real games. Exactly. So, OK, modern training is maybe more scientific, you know, fitness, diet plans, breaking down skills. But his point is that the sheer volume of actual play taught those older guys something fundamental about the game itself. The game was the teacher. He remembers the big teams back then too.

2:29 Chiefs and Swallows, he says, were the absolute giants in the 80s. And Pirates, Big club, obviously always a big name, but he recalls them actually struggling a bit in that decade. Nearly got relegated at one point. Just picking up the odd. Cup and he mentioned some names that have kind of faded, like Low United. Yeah, reminds you how things change at the top. He also talks about playing in some real legends like Team Outage de Ladla. What do you say about him? Describes him as just a pure natural footballer.

2:57 Flair. Incredible ability, Could apparently get the ball from the keeper and just glide up the pitch with one twos. Wow. Yeah he uses his great image. Says if there was snow De Ladla wouldn't even leave footprints, just floated. Effortless talent. Amazing. So how does someone go from playing against guys like that to wanting to coach? Well, funny story, actually. He says it started purely for money. Extra cash, Really. Yeah. Coaching kids at schools while he was still playing senior football. And get this, he was earning more coaching the school kids than playing.

3:29 No way, that's wild. Crazy, right? So that kind of blanted the seed, the coaching bug when he was still pretty young, early 20s. Started with kids, then moved. Up yeah. Found coaching little kids tough but quickly got picked for like prevention and national under 16 setups. Still very young himself. But the real push in the senior coaching came later. Yeah, a bad injury ruptured his Achilles. He was about 3233. Ouch. Big one out for nine months. And this was, you know, before everyone had great medical aid or the kind of rehab science we have now.

4:03 So recovery was tough. Very tough and it hit his day job too. Being a Rep meant driving couldn't do that. Bosses weren't happy. So playing career basically over job under pressure. What did he do? A friend offered him a chance coaching Vasco de Gama First Division side. He did it for maybe 3 months completely for free for. Free just to get a start. Just to get his foot in the senior coaching door. Serious dedication. And that led somewhere significant right to seven stars. Exactly 7 stars. And this is where that famous story starts spotting a young Benny McCarthy.

4:35 How did that happen? He says literally day one he walks in, sees the 17 year old kid Benny and just knew told people this kids going to Europe. And he was right. Spot on end of that season Benny was sold to Axe Amsterdam for $1,000,000 which was huge money back then. Incredible foresight. What was seven stars like as a club? He reckons it had unbelievable potential, good infrastructure, big sponsors involved, Adidas, Pick and pay and the owner Rob Moore he felt was really ahead of his time, very forward thinking.

5:08 And the idea behind the club? Brilliant concept representing the seven townships around Cape Town trying to build that community connection. He even coached some big ex Chiefs names. They're like Chipper, Missinga Trevor Methinkulu. So why didn't it become a powerhouse? That's his big regret, actually. He really believes it had all the pieces but somehow didn't fulfill that potential to become a top top PSL club. Interesting. So after seven stars. Back to Hellenic, his old club. He describes them as really well structured, massive focus on youth.

5:40 They kept winning the Celtics, Colts league producing players constantly. So that's where he really got into that produce and sell model. Yeah, he really embraced it there, developed the talent, sell them on, keep the club running. It became a pattern in his career, really. And he was still doing another job alongside this. Yep. Still working as a sales agent for Mitre football gear while coaching Hellenic. That's partly why he didn't jump into seven stars full time at first. Had a decent job he wasn't ready to ditch.

6:07 Apparently earned double at Hellenic while doing the agent work too. Juggling quite a bit, Was it smooth sailing at Hellenic? Not always, He mentions hitting a rough patch in his third season. They sold some key players. Main striker the keeper Mel Bontang, Bradley August. And couldn't replace him properly. Struggled to, yeah, lead to some friction and quite a dramatic exit, apparently. Yeah, left abruptly, but then the owner called him back later, said he'd made a mistake, asked him to return. Did he go back?

6:37 No, by then he was already looking at his next move. He reflects on it, though, says Hellenic felt like a marriage made in heaven in some ways, being his old club. But maybe the club just needed a bit more patience during that rough spell. Which brings us to a pretty big change of scenery. Venda Black leopards. How on earth did that come about? Bit of a random connection. David Adela, who was high up in police security and also involved with PSL security put him on to them. Leopards had just been promoted.

7:07 And this was right before the season started. Yeah, like weeks before, completely out of the blue, he says he packed a small bag, thinking he was just going for a weekend visit. And ended up staying a year. Exactly. Big adjustment, he says. The heat, obviously very different from Cape Town, the whole cultural environment. And this experience really shaped his views on something specific, didn't it? Infrastructure. Oh massively. This is where he gets really critical about the lack of proper facilities at so many PSL clubs even today.

7:36 What kind of things? Seeing players having to get changed in their cars before training, he says that's just not acceptable for a professional league. It drives him mad. He makes a strong point about club sales too. Yeah, that clubs often sell the franchise, the name, the bus, maybe the players, but not actual assets like training grounds, proper offices. He feels there's no legacy being built, nothing left behind for the future of the game. Serious concerns, but despite all that, on the pitch at Leopards.

8:06 Fantastic season. They were flying second on the log, the halfway stage he calls it a match made in heaven with the players attitude and the local. Support any standout players he mentions. Yeah, Coxwell Asia apparently bought him for just 10,000. Ram became a brilliant player for him. Others too. Lundo Siquiv, Hilu, Liefa, Kosha, Clement, Mazi, Guko. And they had that famous win against Chiefs. Oh yeah, beat Chiefs 3 nil at Chiefs home ground. Massive result. So why leave if it was going so well?

8:32 He saw Swallows as the next logical step up for his career. Slightly better money too, admits David Adela, who connected him was pretty upset about him leaving Leopards. Does he think they could have sustained it at Leopards? He questions it, wonders if they could have kept that momentum without more serious investment. Plus he mentions the difficulty of attracting top players to actually live and settle in vendor long term. Fairpoint. So on to swallows. Did that move bring more recognition? Definitely raised his profile yeah, but wow did it start rough.

9:07 First game lost back against Leopards ironically. Then soon after they got hammered 5 Noah by Pirates at Rand Stadium. Supporters can't have been happy. Not at all, he says. Things got so bad after that Pirates game he actually needed a police escort to get out of the stadium safely. Angry fans. Intense, but he turned it around. He did stabilize things. They finished fourth that season and actually over the six years he was there, they were pretty consistently in the top four or five. Working with the owner, Leon Prince.

9:34 Yeah. Mentions working with Leon Prince. Acknowledges the financial struggles Prince had just keeping the club going. Like Hellenics, Swallows was often a selling club, needing to move players on to balance the books. And there's a classic story from his Swallows time involving player management menu Pimar. Ah yes, menu Pimar, he calls him. Probably the biggest underachiever he ever coached. Brilliant football brain. Technically gifted, but. Lazy. That's the word he uses apparently. Found him running laps at a racecourse after another club and let him go.

10:08 So you pick him up. Brought him to swallows, got him fit and basically made him the main man. Built the team around his ability. And Pienaar eventually moved on. Yep, went to Chiefs, more money, bigger club appeal. But the coach here predicted he wouldn't be the central figure at Chiefs like he was at Swallows and apparently that's how it played out. Different environment, different demands. Interesting dynamics. So 6 good years at swallows, mostly top five finishes. Why move on then? Ambition, really.

10:34 He felt they'd hit a ceiling at swallows without major reinvestment. Coaches, especially ambitious ones, want to win trophies, right? Makes sense. And he makes a really short point here. Says people judge coaches by trophies, but sometimes the best coaching happens with limited resources, just getting consistent results. It's way easier to win when you have all the best players. Like his example, put Pep Guardiola at a lower league club. He's not winning the league, is he? It's all about context resources.

11:04 Absolutely key insight. So that desire for trophies led him to Super Sport United. Exactly. Super Sport offered that chance to really compete at the top, but that first stint, wow, it didn't start well at all. What happened? Major resistance from the players. They were really loyal to the previous coach, he said. He walked in day one and nobody even really greeted him or introduced him. Just awkward silence. That sounds like a nightmare start for a new coach. Totally. He describes a real culture clash.

11:31 The players were used to long team talks before training. Starting late, he wanted them out on the grass working straight away. And results weren't good initially. Terrible bottom of the league. After five games, he got called into a meeting with the management. Pressure was on. Big time. But he stood his ground, basically said look, if you wanted the same results as last year, finishing 7th or 8th, you should have kept the old coach. I told you on day one we could win the league with this squad.

11:59 Gutsy and what happened? Amazingly, they turned it completely around, won the league that same season. Incredible turn around, made a few changes, moved a couple of players out, brought a couple in just. Phenomenal. But then there's another huge story from that time. Take O Modisy's departure. Yeah, he tackles this head on, says the media story. That he didn't want Tikko or the Tikko didn't fit his style is absolute rubbish. So what does he say happened? He says the chairman sold Tikko just a week before the season started.

12:28 He actually wanted to build the team around Modi's. But the perception was different. Completely. He insists Tikko was the fittest he'd ever been during that preseason under him. Admits maybe they clashed a tiny bit on the training ground because he pushed him hard. Maybe harder than Tecco is used. To but the idea he wanted South Africa's best player gone. He says it's nonsense. Why would any coach want that? Makes sense, and despite losing Tecco, he went on to achieve massive success there. Unprecedented really.

12:58 Won the league title three times in a row with Super Sport. Just total dominance for that period. Yet he still faced criticism. Yeah, he mentions this weird thing where people started saying he was a league coach, not a cup coach. Found it pretty baffling given the league titles. Which kind of leads us into his coaching philosophy, how he deals with players. Right. He's quite blunt about it, contrasts his approach with coaches who maybe, you know, hug and kiss players for sure but aren't actually straight with them.

13:26 He believes in honesty. Absolutely. He argues that real, lasting respect comes from pushing players. Being truthful, even if it ruffles feathers in the short term, tells them what they need to hear, not always what they want to here. Does he give an example? Dane Clayte is his prime example. He uses this funny analogy. Calls him a bottle of tomato sauce. Tomato sauce. Yeah, like sometimes you have to give the bottle a good rack on the bottom to get the sauce out, he says. Clayte needed that directness, that push to really unlock his consistency as a goal scorer and creator.

14:01 And the relationship now. Yes, those are great friends now. The honesty worked in the long run. But it doesn't always work. No, he contrasts Clayte starkly with Massen Duana. Zongo calls Zongo maybe the most naturally gifted player he's ever seen in that group. Just incredible talent, but someone you just couldn't push. The harder you push, the more he resisted and ultimately he feels Zongo massively underachieved because of that. Talent isn't always enough. Not on its own. He also talks about Bibi Mutombo from that same era.

14:30 Talented kid, but he felt Mutombo was played wrong in the youth teams. Always as a #10. What did he do? Moved him deeper at Super Sport into a number six or eight role. Said. It completely revitalized his career. They ended up selling him for good money. But he thinks Mutombo maybe should have stayed at Super Sport. Yeah, that's his feeling. Calls him a super sport player. Thinks he would have been handled better there. Had a better overall career than going to Pirates where he felt Mutombo just became another number and got a bit lost in the system.

15:01 Is that a common theme? He sees young players struggling at the big clubs. Definitely, he mentions Mitombo, Maimilangu, others. He thinks the whole football environment has changed. It's not just player and coach anymore. What else is involved? Agents, owners, CEO's, friends, family, everyone's got an opinion, everyone's in the player's ear. He feels it really undermines the coach's authority, especially at the bigger clubs. He mentioned owners talking directly to players. Yeah, bypassing the coach entirely.

15:29 Having conversations the coach knows nothing about. He really believes coaches need more overall control, more like the old school manager figure. Like Alex Ferguson. Exactly. Someone who manages the player totally on and off the pitch. He thinks South African football often gets it backwards, focusing too much on the owner's power rather than empowering the coach who's there day in, day out. Makes you think. OK, so after super sports dominance, he moves to Bidvest. Wits. Why Wits? Well, Super Sport was starting to sell players again, becoming more of a selling club.

16:03 Wits came along offering a different proposition, a project with investment, but smart investment, he says. Now you're talking my language. Smart investment how? Not just throwing money around. Exactly. They weren't trying to outspend chiefs or pirates on massive transfer fees. Their genius, he says, was dominating the free agent market. Picking up top players whose contracts had expired. Precisely. He names the core of that title winning Wits team. Tyson, Platswayo, Sheba, Villa, Kazi, Bangani, Kumalo all came in as free agents, says Brava.

16:33 Lacazi was maybe the only big money signing. Incredible business and the results followed. Step by step, third, third, second, then first, they won the league and cups, he emphasizes. They were consciously building that team. Over time, squad depth became key. Looking at the bench and seeing players who could easily be starting. And he makes a bold claim about that Wits team relative to Sundowns. Very bold. He says flat out that Wits was the only team that could have genuinely challenged Sundowns during their dominant run.

17:04 He reckons Sundowns feared coming to Mill Park, their home ground. Thinks they would have stopped the eight titles in a row. He genuinely believes so, says Wits. Would have taken one or two of those titles off. What was the? Key to Witt's success off the pitch. The relationship with the CEO, Jose Ferreira. He calls Ferreira the best CEO I've ever worked with and deeply regrets he's not a football anymore. They had daily contact, Ferrer watch training. That close bond was vital, he says, for navigating the tough times and keeping the coach motivated.

17:34 That support structure sounds crucial. Any memorable games from Witt's? The big one is that MTN 8 final win against Sundowns. 3 nil and Sundowns were playing the Champions League final just the next next week. People talked about wits showboating in that game. He dismisses that, says they were just keeping possession brilliantly under pressure. If anything they should have scored a couple more from those moves. It was control, not arrogance. Such a strong period for Wits which makes the end so sad.

18:00 The club being sold. Yeah, really sad, he says. He kind of sensed it might be coming. Changes in the ownership's focus. But the impact was devastating. The Academy shut down staff losing jobs overnight. Just gone. And the impact on the league. He argues strongly that selling wits, really weak in South African football overall, took away a highly competitive, well managed, smart club that was pushing the top teams. A real loss. So after Wits disappeared, he ends up at Kaiser Chiefs. During the COVID bubble, no less.

18:31 Yeah, describes it as a dream job, based purely on the history, the glamour he remembers from the 80s. But the timing, he says. It just wasn't right. What were the challenges? Huge challenges. The COVID bubble itself was weird and isolating, then the massive FIFA transfer ban couldn't sign anyone to refresh the squad and he felt the existing squad was well, visibly declining in quality and fitness levels. Tough circumstances, yet they had that incredible run in Africa. Unexpectedly brilliant, Yeah.

19:01 Got Chiefs out of the Sea CAF Champions League group stage for the first time ever. Reached the semifinals, which was a massive achievement given the league form and the player ban. Which makes his exit even more bizarre. Totally controversial. Fired after they won the quarterfinal just before the semis, which they then went on to win under the interim coaches reaching the final. He openly wonders what discussions happened behind the scenes to lead to that. Looking at Chiefs now, what does he see as their main challenge?

19:29 Competing with Sundowns financially, especially for the top local talent, Sundowns can just offer transfer fees and widgets that Chiefs and even Pirates struggle to match consistently. So what's his solution for Chiefs? Focus strategically on signing the absolute best 5 foreign players they can find. If you can't always get the very top locals, you need truly elite foreigners to bridge that gap. He sees that as a key difference to Sundowns. Yeah, points out, Sundowns spends big on foreigners, too, though he does question the value sometimes mentioning potential language and cultural issues with some signings.

20:05 But the principle is top foreign talent is crucial if local options are limited by finances. And this brings us right back to that eternal debate, especially at Chiefs style versus win. Yeah, he gets asked this all the time, and his answer is emphatic. At the highest level, winning is everything winning. He doesn't buy into the play beautiful football even if you lose idea. Not at the sharp end, no. He uses examples Chiefs winning the Ned Bank Cup recently with functional football. Old Chiefs coaches like Jeff Butler, Joe Fickelton, they won trophies but weren't always lauded for style.

20:38 Even Man City, he says, didn't win the League One year despite everyone praising their amazing style. So the result is king. For him, yes, chairman shouldn't ask how did we play then they should ask did we win. Style, he argues, is something you can layer on top once you've established a winning culture and consistency. Like the spring books. Maybe not always champagne rugby, but they know how to win. Powerful perspective. So after Chiefs he went back to Super sport second time around. Return for a second spell.

21:08 Notice the difference straight away though. Budgets were tighter, player quality available was maybe a bit lower than his first dominant spell did. He get the back up the table. Yeah, got them back into the top 4 after they'd slipped, but it was still fundamentally a selling club. Mentions factors like selling key players again, even having to change home grounds affecting results. And his second departure, how did that come about? He kind of links it back to that same dynamic, winning versus expectations.

21:34 If you're not winning consistently, especially after previous success pressure Bill. And as he says, usually the coach is the one who pays the price. Seen as the problem. Looking at the PSL now, what's his overall take? He sees a widening gap, a worrying one, between the have Sundowns leading the pack, maybe chiefs and Pirates behind them, and the have Nots, and it's almost all down to money, spending, power. He wonders about sponsorship for smaller clubs, too. Yeah, questions why sponsors might hesitate?

22:03 Asks rhetorically. Where's the money going? Suggests maybe a lack of transparency or visible impact makes it hard for smaller clubs to attract big corporate backing. And Sundown's dominance purely financial. Largely, yes. Their ability to just go out and buy players, pay the fees, pay the wages. Other clubs simply can't compete at that level consistently. Even Chiefs and Pirates struggle to match Sundowns pound for pound in the market now. Why is it so hard for others like a wits or super sport to sustain a challenge then?

22:33 He reckons they need to be fundamentally 10 points better over a season just to stay close because Chiefs and Pirates, he argues, have this built in advantage their massive fanbase. How does that help? Motivation. Playing in front of huge, passionate crowds home and away gives players an extra edge, he says. It's just harder for players at smaller clubs to consistently find that same level of intensity playing in near empty stadiums week after week compared to the buzz of a Derby. So what's he doing now?

23:02 He's currently out of a job, right? Yeah, and he's very open about it. Says it's driving him crazy. He's a coach. He wants to be on the training pitch working with players. What kind of opportunity is he looking for? He calls it a realistic club, somewhere that understands its budget and doesn't have crazy expectations. Good youth set up decent training. Training facilities are important and crucially, supportive ownership, open communication, willing to ride out the bumps together. Patience seems key.

23:30 Hugely. He uses Stellenbosch as a great example. They stuck with their coach for years, built something steadily and now look, they're really competitive. He hates the constant chopping and changing of coaches, believes it holds back the overall development of players and the quality of football in the league. And just briefly, he touched on the upcoming CF Champions League final Sundowns versus Esperance. Yeah, described Esperance as a good side. Determined, solid defensively, likely to play on the counter but capable of scoring, especially away.

24:00 Notes Sundowns have advantages now. Yeah, like travelling with big squads, the league helping with fixtures, things South African clubs didn't always get in the past. He thinks Sundowns might actually prefer playing away where teams attack them more, but stresses how vital that first leg at home is. Need a good lead against a team like Esperance who carry that away a goal threat. And the pressure on Sundowns. Immense, he feels given their investment and how far they've come, anything less than winning the whole competition this year would be seen as an underachievement, even with the league title secured.

24:32 Winning just breeds more pressure. To keep winning sometimes means changing players, maybe even the coach eventually, just to maintain that hunger. Final thought on 2 legged ties. Especially in Africa with away goals, defense is critical. Can't just be about scoring. Need that solid foundation over the 180 minutes. It's a balancing act. Wow what an incredible journey and so many sharp insights shared there from playing in the semi pro 80s seeing the PSL change everything. To discovering Benny building teams at 7 stars Leopards.

25:03 The ups and downs. Managing players like Clay Zongo, Mutombo, the successes and the what ifs. Winning those three league titles back-to-back, The brilliance of that Wits project built on smarts, not just cash. Then the frustration of the wit sale the chiefs experience, the infrastructure problems, the style versus winning debate. It covers so much ground. It really paints a picture of the complexity of South African football. It's not just tactics on a board, is it? It's about the environment, the money, the personalities, the history.

25:34 And the need for patience, for honesty, and ultimately that drive to win. So thinking about everything we've just unpacked, all those experiences, those strong opinions, what's the one thing that really sticks with you? What are you going to be mulling over next time you're watching a game?